From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt0-x235.google.com (mail-qt0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c0d::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D00F43B2A4 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 10:56:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qt0-x235.google.com with SMTP id t5-v6so896775qtn.3 for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 07:56:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=k26L0C6kzPS75TBObEmPvzh1BbYW5HRyhEJ9dIvSlS4=; b=GYGSpU+63xTwWUbVk2E+vHal2W0DKAzxqXhC2fN7Twat3/w7Bh6sWWxX9xM6yLU7Bf IYqKvn1D3jTxFe00wMtuDCTZjw6nrUZLoCs3O3Pv+Cr/1sJjHVkNRFU4lwCOB8w7jVSn z/dvBv/P1pdWMjPjavQdBFu8M7DsINeFjJ4rjjJ4fZBUYIPIqFfeE/KoKAtYb5m5zVob vFyoikoPqwSrNXx9AdMdpW00za3aUePgfehPgno22ZDhFJsebMvKE2wHzOD1butkx/tb rXC0qeY1QS6klCX6XSeRdqem10nGUoqBGHr1nMgZ4AanNGcwOELf2GA/hn/mshUj4gVG Z88g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=k26L0C6kzPS75TBObEmPvzh1BbYW5HRyhEJ9dIvSlS4=; b=rcIjUAORCYA/tgJOgwBMBtZ4AbN323Q8jeXxFDIVDM8C5ro2RUQj7UqRBP15hfwBzh eXOzIKm5kdv2XZo6VnBkMW2LkZq56LeDSCmtV960AP3wJTp5eh9sEoamsVB6w3bWf444 ggvfkdOLekBEjdPIZcnKVfXsqklkNiSJjr0VlAQojMX2T63VKHlaysUn/t8sK/ErBnAi nDHZQy/m1xBwJu/Ctz1g+JO5Q6TKPCUGvKY7jiPan355omgXxvkSEbt9dy0oJekJFK1m uQO9Qc6sa6TmEWdwvzgteGnLj5+COgDHEGav3hfMxtHygbYwJcnWQyEUoU96aXeHjPDA 4IFw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOUpUlHl0zNAydFI8G9v7w5QUEbRLkM6c2xt0ql2cl052llo+hlHhm5C cw4KS9VZckGjTv1EAF3hX+WubXtbZqzUtkDZWI6u5aZq X-Google-Smtp-Source: AAOMgpeMVWCT8gGhyQQ1b3d34ZrcQhOu8IQ6yvZFnzLNXntCPmQCCOJgOAsIKXvkyJ7cXA6Fgiur2NTD9eZWXFsRgks= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:31cd:: with SMTP id i13-v6mr12410775qte.144.1532357815253; Mon, 23 Jul 2018 07:56:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4C129A60-21D3-4B78-A764-DC8E2CD7E4DF@gmail.com> <6839ba220fe4399eba3620620515fc1dd801a509.camel@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 07:56:43 -0700 Message-ID: To: Ryan Mounce Cc: Arie , Cake List Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Subject: Re: [Cake] inbound cake or fq_codel shaping fails on cable on netflix reno X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2018 14:56:55 -0000 Great info, thx. Using this opportunity to rant about city-wid networks, I'd have done something so different than what the governments and ISPs have inflicted on us, substituting redundancy for reliability. I'd have used bog standard ethernet over fiber instead of gpon. The only advantages to gpon were that it was a standard normal folk (still) can't use, it offered encryption to the co-lo, and the gpon splitter at the neighborhood cabinett could be unpowered, and a telco-like design could be made telco-level reliable.Theoretically. In reality it constrains the market and raises the price of gpon capable gear enormously, thus creating a cost for the isp and a healthy profit margin for the fiber vendor. Neighborhood cabinets would be cross connected north, east, west, south, uplink1, uplink2, thus rendering the entire network immune to fiber cuts and other disruptions of service and allowing competition for service from multiple isps. Fiber or copper or wireless (cell) to the building from there. Your neighbor would be one hop away. Local cellular or wifi would spring out of smaller towers distributed above those cabinets. Lest you think I'm entirely insane, that's how amsterdam's network was built out 10+ years ago. https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/03/how-amsterdam-was-wired-for-open-access-fiber/ I'd have avoided MPLS, and gone with something like 64xlat to deal with the ipv4 distribution problem. There'd be a secure routing protocol holding the city-wide network together. And there'd be ponies. Lots of ponies.