[Cake] cakemq

[Cake] cakemq

[Dave Taht]

I don't know if it is possible to multithread cake or not. But I
started writing the ideas up here:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tTYBPeaRdCO9AGTGQCpoiuLORQzN_bG3TAkEolJPh28/edit?usp=sharing

Pretty fragmentary, other use cases, other features, other
mis-features, and thoughts requested.

-- 
Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos

Re: [Cake] cakemq

[Dave Taht]

thank you sebastian and dave for your comments and feedback so far. I
would like to find other markets for cake, more statistics worth
collecting, and other ideas, in the hope that we could find something
fundable out of the mix.

On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 9:07 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't know if it is possible to multithread cake or not. But I
> started writing the ideas up here:
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tTYBPeaRdCO9AGTGQCpoiuLORQzN_bG3TAkEolJPh28/edit?usp=sharing
>
> Pretty fragmentary, other use cases, other features, other
> mis-features, and thoughts requested.
>
> --
> Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos



-- 
Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos

Re: [Cake] cakemq

[David P. Reed]

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Here's me wearing my business executive/business consulting hat:
 
If you want a market that fits Cake very well, SME corporate routers and building-scale routers are perfect. Whereever there's a bottleneck behind which you have many PCs and consumer devices, etc. Cake can do the job. (That's better than the bulk of the low end home routers, which still are installed in apartments with one family as the only traffic source, so just buying a faster link typically manages the bottleneck OK today).
 
Let's say you are a startup in the Bay Area - you get a Comcast Business service connection, and then start hiring people with laptops. And maybe you have some "lights out" server capacity at some colo you pay for, but you don't buy the highest speed service for your server traffic to get to your developers' machines (either in the office or remote).

Seems to me that Cake is the answer, and that answer will run in mini-PCs (heftier CPUs than today's home routers) that have 2 NICs, each that are GigE or 2.5 GigE or 40 GigE, depending on your bottleneck bandwidth of the service you can buy from Comcast Business or your colo facility.
 
Cake will "just solve" the problem of congestion at that bottleneck, by pushing back traffic rates fairly to the endpoints on a flow by flow basis.
 
Now lots of small businesses run something like pFSense at that bottleneck point on that hardware.
Others seem to even run something more complex like Proxmox (because it costs next to nothing) with one of the VMs being the "router".
 
I'm sure there are lots of small IT support shops that install and maintain these appliances out there. I don't know any personally, but it's crazy for a small business to have a full time employee maintain that interconnect.
 
So, given that Cake would make them more money, they must be convincable to share some of that with Cake developers. Because they have deep pockets, Comcast Business (which is a VERY different business from Comcast residential Internet) would be the first place I'd look. Presumably they dela with Value Added Resellers who specialize in provisioning small and medium businesses.
 
(I once had a nice conversation with Jason Livingood about how Comcast Business is independent and should be thought of as having very different tech needs. He might be able to tell you who at Comcast Business might be a good contact. The same with all the other business Internet access providers out there.)
 
On Saturday, July 29, 2023 4:49pm, "Dave Taht via Cake" <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net> said:



> thank you sebastian and dave for your comments and feedback so far. I
> would like to find other markets for cake, more statistics worth
> collecting, and other ideas, in the hope that we could find something
> fundable out of the mix.
> 
> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 9:07 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I don't know if it is possible to multithread cake or not. But I
> > started writing the ideas up here:
> >
> >
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tTYBPeaRdCO9AGTGQCpoiuLORQzN_bG3TAkEolJPh28/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> > Pretty fragmentary, other use cases, other features, other
> > mis-features, and thoughts requested.
> >
> > --
> > Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
> > Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
> 

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Re: [Cake] cakemq

[Dave Taht]

On Sat, Jul 29, 2023 at 3:20 PM David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:
>
> Here's me wearing my business executive/business consulting hat:

You look good in a hat!

>
>
> If you want a market that fits Cake very well, SME corporate routers and building-scale routers are perfect. Whereever there's a bottleneck behind which you have many PCs and consumer devices, etc. Cake can do the job. (That's better than the bulk of the low end home routers, which still are installed in apartments with one family as the only traffic source, so just buying a faster link typically manages the bottleneck OK today).

I agree that there are markets in the small biz space. However a lot
of fq_codel and cake has already entered that market (fq_codel on
pfsense,  cake on things like riverbed, evenroute pro, mikrotik), and
I have no idea how well it is doing. In any case, building a routing
or firewalling product from cake out is quite an undertaking, and my
goal with writing up some needed features was to find a way to just
support further development.

>
>
> Let's say you are a startup in the Bay Area - you get a Comcast Business service connection, and then start hiring people with laptops. And maybe you have some "lights out" server capacity at some colo you pay for, but you don't buy the highest speed service for your server traffic to get to your developers' machines (either in the office or remote).
>
> Seems to me that Cake is the answer, and that answer will run in mini-PCs (heftier CPUs than today's home routers) that have 2 NICs, each that are GigE or 2.5 GigE or 40 GigE, depending on your bottleneck bandwidth of the service you can buy from Comcast Business or your colo facility.

I strongly agree that lil business routers that do more of the right
things would be good, also "managed wifi".

>
>
> Cake will "just solve" the problem of congestion at that bottleneck, by pushing back traffic rates fairly to the endpoints on a flow by flow basis.
>
>
>
> Now lots of small businesses run something like pFSense at that bottleneck point on that hardware.
>
> Others seem to even run something more complex like Proxmox (because it costs next to nothing) with one of the VMs being the "router".
>
>
>
> I'm sure there are lots of small IT support shops that install and maintain these appliances out there. I don't know any personally, but it's crazy for a small business to have a full time employee maintain that interconnect.

I know of a few managed services companies, but they are small.

>
>
> So, given that Cake would make them more money,

I am not entirely certain that reducing service calls makes that kind
of shop "more money".

>they must be convincable to share some of that with Cake developers. Because they have deep pockets, Comcast Business (which is a VERY different business from Comcast residential Internet) would be the first place I'd look. Presumably they dela with Value Added Resellers who specialize in provisioning small and medium businesses.

I think that some large ISPs' business units would be interested, but
that they would to existing vendors more than someone new and shiny.

>
>
> (I once had a nice conversation with Jason Livingood about how Comcast Business is independent and should be thought of as having very different tech needs. He might be able to tell you who at Comcast Business might be a good contact. The same with all the other business Internet access providers out there.)

Thank you for your thoughts.

>
>
>
> On Saturday, July 29, 2023 4:49pm, "Dave Taht via Cake" <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net> said:
>
> > thank you sebastian and dave for your comments and feedback so far. I
> > would like to find other markets for cake, more statistics worth
> > collecting, and other ideas, in the hope that we could find something
> > fundable out of the mix.
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 9:07 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > I don't know if it is possible to multithread cake or not. But I
> > > started writing the ideas up here:
> > >
> > >
> > https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tTYBPeaRdCO9AGTGQCpoiuLORQzN_bG3TAkEolJPh28/edit?usp=sharing
> > >
> > > Pretty fragmentary, other use cases, other features, other
> > > mis-features, and thoughts requested.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
> > > Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
> > Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cake mailing list
> > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
> >



-- 
Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg
Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos