I think that joining OIN is one of the best move, as of today, to ensure protection against patent trolls. I say, go for it. --Luca On Sat, Oct 31, 2015 at 2:20 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > Over the last 5 years or so the open inventions network has grown by > leaps and bounds. > http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/community-of-licensees/ > > Here in the bufferbloat pits... instead of joining that, we worked > really hard to make sure codel went out into the public domain > unpatented - for anyone to use, and so far, so good on that.... > > But there are so many IP landmines ahead (and behind) that it makes > sense for at least CeroWrt/make-wifi-fast to now join with a group > like OIN for mutual defense against the trolls. I think. Maybe. > > Perhaps other groups like gargoyle or dd-wrt should also join, if they > have not already. > > In particular, lots of lots of chip producers have joined OIN of late, > and with probably lots of IP to share. To name just a few: Avago, > Cavium, Cadence, Cavium, DSP, Mellanox, Sequans, VIA, LG, CalAmp, etc. > > If anyone here has any comments, positive or negative to make about > oin, or this course of action, please discuss. I have no idea how > companies like the Cisco's of the world, view OINs efforts. > > i would not mind securing and then assigning to an oin, a hw patent or > two, myself. I think. A plaque on the wall would be nice, but I am > still wrapping my head around the implications of how oin relates to > hardware development.... > > ... > > In other news, actually making cerowrt and/or bufferbloat.net a > functioning org > (non profit or for profit) is something on my mind - probably based in > europe (sweden or denmark). If anyone here would like to discuss that > (need a BOD, > articles of incorporation, etc), drop me a line off-list, and if > enough people are interested, we'll hash it out on some other list. > > ...Until now, I have generally taken care of paying all of cerowrt and > bufferbloat.net's misc bills, out of teeny little teklibre. All else > was provided by volunteers and orgs that cared enough to loan or > donate resources, which was pretty awesome. Total cash donations to > the whole five year effort from individuals was probably less than > about 15k, prior to the fcc letter fundraiser, which raised ~8k. > > (I shudder to think of what the real costs were....) > > As a non-org... > > We benefited hugely from isc.org's hosting in particular, but they are > now shutting down ( :( ) that, and google funded the openwrt build > system for a while (grant now expired), and I survived on somewhat > non-related contracts with comcast and google fiber and misc others > and am still paying the last bills for the now-shut-down yurtlab, and > maintaining the sole remaining machine in the google compute build > cluster, (which I would like to spin up more fully as we try to get > homenet and make-wifi-fast more widely tested) - and I'm based at the > uni of karlstad in sweden presently... > > So a ton of stuff has to move around... the dns servers and and web > servers have to move into the cloud soon... > > ...AND there may be a few grant opportunities arriving, that it would > be saner to A - have another/real org for, along with B - have better > housing against liabilities and new costs. > > Another option, instead of forming a new org, would be to join > something like software for the public interest... get icei.org more > alive... or.. nl.net. > > Nlnet.nl has the first small scale/small grant program/process (30k > typically) for sustaining engineering that I have dealt with that I > have ever seen work - it is fast and easy - as since august they been > helping pay for jon's work on cake! - and they've been a joy to work > with, as was iis before them. > > So A - forming an org, and B - getting protections for same - are > conflated, but what I mostly wanted to get out of my mailbox this > morning was the ideas behind OIN. > > Anyway, below is the conversation I'd had a few weeks back with one of > the members of oin that convinced me we should look them over, and > that maybe now would be a good time to get the house more in order. > > > Dave Täht > I just invested five years of my life to making wifi better. And, > now... the FCC wants to make my work, illegal for people to install. > https://www.gofundme.com/savewifi > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Valer Mischenko > Date: Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 8:34 AM > Subject: Re: CeroWrt joining software patent non-aggression community > To: Dave Taht > > > Nice to hear from you Dave, > > That's because virtually all the innovation is the legal land-mine, > OIN exists and is doing it so well now. Not because we like patents, > just the opposite. But because we realise that the community needs to > show off its weapons to counteract aggression. A prayer cannot stop > aggression, but showing off your weapons can often prevent it. > > You may see it as building a fortress in a hostile woods full of > trolls. Everybody who does not want to be attacked and wants to be > protected is welcome. With a weapon or without, big or small, > commercial or non-profit. If one does not have a weapon, he brings a > brick with him (his voice against aggression) which entrenches the > walls of the fort. That's how we build it. > > Even if you are careful as hell in choosing the techniques, you cannot > prevent them attack you. If you are in the market, your are exposed. > That's a silly fact. With OIN we cannot change the world, but we try > to build a mutual protection around innovation. For trolls it seems > quite easy to threaten anyone - this is just righting a letter to an > innovating collective, claiming any patent infringement and wait for > fees. Defending yourself from them, on the other side, might be very > difficult. This asymmetry is widely exploited by trolls. But if you > have unconditional rights to use this ocean of intellectual property > of OIN members, they can barely do anything to you, as you are covered > to the best possible extent. Albeit not 100%, nobody can guarantee > that of course. > > OIN provides unprecedented IP coverage. There is no analogue. Hundreds > of thousand of patents around Linux plus additionally ~1000 patents of > the OIN which you get the right to use forever. In your open source or > proprietary products. And you keep this rights even if OIN or any or > all members do not exist anymore. For you undersign the license, not a > contract with OIN. The license may sound a bit legalistic, as it was > compiled as "one-size-fits-all", from multinational to SME to startup > to project, and to help the licensees to defend themselves as good as > possible. What the license in essence says is the following: > > (1) All members give the project Interactive a royalty-free license > for their Linux-related patents and patent applications. > > (2) In return the project gives a royalty-free license for any Linux > system patents or patent applications (if any) to other members. > > (3) OIN gives the project a royalty-free license for the large > portfolio of OIN's own defensive portfolio of patents and patent > applications (~1000) which includes many other fields of open source > next to Linux, like cloud, PHP, eCommerce, biometrics, apps building, > embedded, etc. > > That's it in fact. You only share your Linux related patents with the > rest of the community, if you have any. If not, that's OK too, you do > not have to contribute anything in kind either. > > This might be a no brainer when discussing this with your mates. If > necessary we can set up a conf call and talk about this together with > other team members. > > Let me know if I can help with anything. > > Best regards, Valer. > > > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 2:03 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > > > > yes, I have thought about it. when cerowrt started you were a lot > > smaller than this. > > > > on the other hand, we worked really hard to make codel patent-free in > > the first place, as we wanted a total non-agression pact on it, AND we > > wanted people to be able to reuse the code in binary only distros, > > etc. I also have some trust issues. > > > > > > That said, yes, we'll join, after I discuss with the other > > participants in the make-wifi-fast project. That portion of the field > > is a legal land-mine, and while I have been careful to only use > > techniques for which I believe sufficient prior art exists to > > invalidate any patents we might cross, it would be nice to have a > > higher scale of protection for the work. > > > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2015 at 1:59 PM, Valer Mischenko > > wrote: > > > Hi Dave, > > > > > > My name is Valer. I am from Open Invention Network. We help protect > Open > > > Source and Linux-related technology from patent tension. Our goal is to > > > build a non-aggression “standard of behavior” to protect the future of > Linux > > > and Open Source. OIN was created with the support of Red Hat, IBM, > Philips, > > > NEC, Sony and Novell to foster a safe software patent environment for > > > producers and users of Linux. Ever since we have expanded to lot of > more of > > > open source covering now 2335 packages. > > > > > > Today we have almost 1800 participants who have stepped forward to > support > > > patent non-aggression through our community, ranging from OpenWrt to > Ubuntu > > > to Liferay to Mirantis to NGiNX to KDE to Mozilla to Python. > > > > > > CeroWrt, as many of our members, is an active contributor to the Linux > > > kernel. Therefore we want to invite your project too to join our > software > > > patent non-aggression pact. > > > > > > Our community is free to join. The only thing we want is a pledge that > > > CeroWrt would never use patents aggressively against other > participants in > > > the broader definition of the Linux System. Of course it never will, > but it > > > can also be very useful for the users of the code and services of > yours when > > > they see the way to protect themselves from aggression through you > taking > > > part of our community. > > > > > > By joining OIN you will not only help building a no-fly-zone around > Linux > > > and open source, it is pragmatic to secure your rights to OIN's and > > > participants' intellectual property assets as part of a comprehensive > risk > > > mitigation strategy, as you will obtain free, unrestricted worldwide > license > > > to all hundreds of thousands of Linux related patents of the OIN > members. > > > Plus around 1000 very basic OIN owned patents addressing various open > source > > > technologies like cloud, PHP, eCommerce, biometrics, apps building, > > > embedded, etc. You will get it all for free and forever, with the only > > > obligation in return - not to attack other members around the Linux > System. > > > > > > It is an excellent opportunity for CeroWrt to position itself > effectively > > > with regards to Linux and broader open source technology. You would be > > > joining the community consisting not only of the hardest proponents of > open > > > source technology, but also patent-centric companies such as Fujitsu, > Check > > > Point, Vodafone, LG and HTC in perceiving tremendous benefit from > engagement > > > and understand the importance of open innovation. > > > > > > You may be interested in some credentials and in getting more context > about > > > our work. Here is an endorsement from Jim Zemlin, Executive Director > of the > > > Linux Foundation: > > > > http://www.linuxfoundation.org/news-media/blogs/browse/2009/09/protecting-linux-microsoft-yes-microsoft-got-caught > > > > > > Here from Eben Moglen, Chairman of the Software Freedom Law Center: > > > http://emoglen.law.columbia.edu/now/organizations/OIN > > > > > > > > > This is all about building a community intended to get the software > patent > > > aggression out of this world, with the idea behind: when everybody > pledges > > > peace, there will be no wars. We are passionate supporters of open > > > innovation. I hope we will be able to welcome CeroWrt to our > non-aggression > > > community. Every single voice helps us counteract patent aggression and > > > build on a more collaborative future. > > > > > > Attached is a very short overview of OIN + FAQs, but I am happy to > answer > > > any questions and to explain in more detail what we do. > > > > > > Can you discuss this with the team and let me know what you guys > think? May > > > you decide positively there is a possibility to sign in online: > > > > > > http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/joining-oin/license-agreement/ > > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Valer Mischenko, > > > Open Invention Network > > > > > > www.openinventionnetwork.com > > > > > > > > -- > > Dave Täht > > Do you want faster, better, wifi? https://www.patreon.com/dtaht > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat >