From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi0-x232.google.com (mail-oi0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E40A93B2E1 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 06:37:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x232.google.com with SMTP id x19so19349583oix.2 for ; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 03:37:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ariekanarie-nl.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc; bh=t+xxnS1Y1PAbFEpGirwgKvERWjBROjBp/t/PD+b3gNk=; b=Lm/HiZxeK0hZsHDEqSdUWc8ha4fGINn+jHE4RkpRiUQWPZoKDgp85zOikuMIIkdeIC z5BnqrmHx8glZwUEXNvqJ5VCMk5AABVHGq1KndLmtC7jGaq8bH1NWRJKMGDPoSKuwFgT wHEf3uD5oJo8g690wgrv5oURLt6KcCYoDeVG0dkEJ8TZuKRtxBmJT6LqpXNDMyevqI3O m+DzU0MOZj80J9exVNtvH0uyLwenwRZBao2bGtAxGqtsSK2/t0VAgTIS/PQrEcIlB0wl 4QXkqMLCu6LO/ERpSKt342vlteJ2AdK0LAbK171v3oz/DUaU78bDEHKc9XgyT9toPCUb JnGg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:cc; bh=t+xxnS1Y1PAbFEpGirwgKvERWjBROjBp/t/PD+b3gNk=; b=MbOWUSMg4N04NYbn6VrqpybKgKEkume1+tzRCbEoUu+8gUpSzULNEfE0mb3UVq4U3D NGOoxHtBn+grVao6YP7dU6b358Jmytsco32XdApUVktNpxBs2sk/yZmRfQ3q7rO/SOZ8 wp5fZ4i8GgdcaNMpfJaAaNp02yB/Ez1yBRynVkzKGXuE1fpfzPixMLeJMHi/hHExCo6h HEaQrFf9/FV5fzm2arKzKy8M37qcCG10TIvYiXFuH/ras4R2Utr3vKrxWQXvLk6o4+KG 2jzOB4MkxRlbDCa2k/emKJDQfgbZP/VYi+sOxTUs7Y1/hhO/S0sbyE+4yEHpVKbzbgmR JiiA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOPr4FVHpsqQpCATS09mf66pszRQyeUiqHKP2d8Z4N4yfwyIgkQDyEI/c3DondJyxkZ40lxDBremBbSZwlq8cg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.202.207.85 with SMTP id f82mr11788814oig.44.1461494266271; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 03:37:46 -0700 (PDT) Sender: arie@ariekanarie.nl Received: by 10.157.27.215 with HTTP; Sun, 24 Apr 2016 03:37:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Originating-IP: [92.110.149.19] In-Reply-To: References: <571BC61C.4070008@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> <571BD3BC.2090405@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 12:37:46 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: jCeCudWXGkkKfLgbNNgCw8KQCI8 Message-ID: From: Arie To: Alec Robertson Cc: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113df38c9533fc053138a673 Subject: Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2016 10:37:47 -0000 --001a113df38c9533fc053138a673 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you want a very recent cake version, you could use my build from here: http://ariekanarie.nl/openwrt/mvebu/ It's based on the very feature heavy OpenWRT build by trondah ( https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=3D509= 14 ), but using more recent cerowrt and cake stuff. You'll want to flash the shelby factory.img if still on stock firmware, else shelby sysupgrade.tar. On 24 April 2016 at 00:22, Alec Robertson wrote= : > Dear All, > > I=E2=80=99ve realised that I have been responding to Kevin rather than to= the > mailing list - my bad! > > I think I will purchase a Linksys WRT1900ACS as it seems to be fairly wel= l > regarded and is easily accessible in the UK. > > How do I go about setting up Cake on it? > > -- > Alec Robertson > > On 23 April 2016 at 9:00:52 pm, Alec Robertson (alecrobertson13@gmail.com= ) > wrote: > > Dear Kevin, > > I did look at the Linksys WRT1200AC but it seems to get some rather poor > reviews on Amazon? > > -- > Alec Robertson > > On 23 April 2016 at 8:58:02 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant ( > kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote: > > > > On 23/04/2016 20:42, Alec Robertson wrote: > > Dear Kevin, > > That=E2=80=99s very useful thanks. > > You say the TP-LINK Archer C7 should *just* be okay. What could I get > that I know will last me for a long time? What=E2=80=99s got good WiFi ra= nge too? > > The honest answer is I've absolutely no idea and I'm in that dilemma > myself. There's a remake of the linksys WRT range (WRT1200????) that > apparently is very powerful, I guess the issue is how far along OpenWrt > is. I might have the wrong end of hte stick but I think Dave Taht may ha= ve > something working. > > Apologies, I'm not really a mine of information. > > > I=E2=80=99m using powerline at the moment but fed up with it disconnectin= g. I > think it is probably the TP-LINK adaptors I am using (known issue > apparently) but wiring up the house is unpractical at the moment. I don= =E2=80=99t > think there is a better solution really. > > -- > Alec Robertson > > On 23 April 2016 at 8:00:00 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant ( > kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote: > > Hi Alec, > > I'm not familiar with TalkTalk but they sound like they do similar > things to Sky - Sky just need a 'login ID' as part of the DHCP request > packet (which funnily enough are the PPPoA/E login details) > > In terms of speed sacrifice, erm, none really. I've set 40mpbs incoming > and 9990kbps for outgoing on a 40000/9999 link as reported by the > modem. Probably critically I've set the packet overheads to 12, and I > now can't remember why... there's an on-wire vlan tag (4 bytes) but the > reason for the other 8 have fallen out of the brain cell. > > I've a semi-regular backup job overnight that on a bad day overruns into > the day - a week or so ago it ran for something like 2 days and I had > absolutely no idea - thinkbroadband's ping monitor was registering > something like an extra 5mS latency over the baseline, peaks were > something like 25mS - backup stats and openwrt's stats package were > registering the full 10mbps uplink in use during that time. > > Does that help? > > Kevin > > > > > On 23/04/16 19:40, Alec Robertson wrote: > > Dear Kevin, > > > > I am on TalkTalk which uses IPoE, so no PPPoE use at all, as far as I > > know. I certainly haven=E2=80=99t ever configured login details. > > > > How much speed do you have to sacrifice on your connection to > > eliminate bufferbloat? > > > > -- > > Alec Robertson > > > > On 23 April 2016 at 10:46:35 am, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant > > (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk > ) > > > wrote: > > > >> Hi Alec, > >> > >> A brief appearance from me whilst I have a spare few seconds. > >> > >> Not stupid! > >> > >> There=E2=80=99s an obvious question: Why are Billion still shipping bu= ffer > >> bloated devices? Have they been sent graphs/demos/logs of how their > >> kit is faulty? > >> > >> To offer some hopefully constructive pointers: For FTTC service I=E2= =80=99m > >> guessing you=E2=80=99ll be using the Billion as a vdsl modem. Who=E2= =80=99s the ISP? > >> AFAIK anyone other than Sky will need to run PPPoE and hence hit the > >> 1492 MTU restriction *unless* the Billion supports mini jumbo frames > >> on the ethernet side and the PPPoE MTU extension (the rfc number > >> escapes the brain at the moment) Sky don=E2=80=99t use PPP and just ru= n > >> ethernet frames over PTM=E2=80=A6..the way it should be. The incoming > >> packets from ISP to you are policed at something close to sync rate, > >> this is part of the BT specification. The uplink of course can be as > >> bloated as hell ;-) > >> > >> I use an Archer C7 with BT=E2=80=99s equally horrendously bloated HG61= 2 vdsl > >> modem on a 40/10 link with sky as my isp. In terms of CPU usage it=E2= =80=99s > >> about 1% per megabit so a full 40/10 uses around 55% cpu, I think > >> there=E2=80=99s enough for your 60/20=E2=80=A6just. > >> https://middling.me.uk/blog/2015/03/customising-openwrt-to-my-needs/ > >> offers further advice which I found useful. > >> > >> Kevin > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>> On 22 Apr 2016, at 23:01, Alec Robertson >>> > wrote= : > >>> > >>> Hi all, > >>> > >>> I=E2=80=99ve been out of the bufferbloat game for a while and want to= try > >>> and beat it once again. > >>> > >>> I=E2=80=99ve got an FTTC connection (UK) which I get around 60Mbps on= but > >>> with horrible bufferbloat on my Billion 8800NL. What router should I > >>> get that can run OpenWRT and handle this connection? Do the newest > >>> builds of OpenWRT have cake built-in now via sqm-scripts or would I > >>> need to install this manually. If so, how would I do this? > >>> > >>> Would appreciate any help and apologies if I come off in any way > stupid. > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Alec Robertson > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Cake mailing list > >>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > > >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake > >> > > > ------------------------------ > > > -- > Thanks, > Kevin@Darbyshire-Bryant.me.uk > M: +44 7947 355344 H: +44 1256 478597 > > > _______________________________________________ > Cake mailing list > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake > > --001a113df38c9533fc053138a673 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you want a very recent cake version, you could use my b= uild from here:=C2=A0http:= //ariekanarie.nl/openwrt/mvebu/ It's based on the very feature heav= y OpenWRT build by trondah ( https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=3D50914 ), = but using more recent cerowrt and cake stuff.

You'll= want to flash the shelby factory.img if still on stock firmware, else shel= by sysupgrade.tar.



On 24 April 2016 at 00:22, Alec = Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,

=
I=E2=80=99ve realised that I have be= en responding to Kevin rather than to the mailing list - my bad!

I th= ink I will purchase a Linksys WRT1900ACS as it seems to be fairly well rega= rded and is easily accessible in the UK.

How do I go about setting up= Cake on it?

--=C2=A0
Alec Robertson

On 23 April 2= 016 at 9:00:52 pm, Alec Robertson (alecrobertson13@gmail.com) wrote:

Dear Kevin,

I did look at the Linksys WRT1200AC but it seems to get some rather poor reviews on Amazon?

--=C2=A0
Alec Robertson

On 23 April 2016 at 8:58:02 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:
On 23/04/2016 20:42, Alec Robertson wrote:
Dear Kevin,

That=E2=80=99s very useful thanks.

You say the TP-LINK Archer C7 should just be okay. What could I get that I know will last me for a long time? What=E2=80=99s got good WiFi range too?
The honest answer is I've absolutely no idea and I'm in that dilemma myself.=C2=A0 There's a remake of the linksys WRT range (WRT1200????) that apparently is very powerful, I guess the issue is how far along OpenWrt is.=C2=A0 I might have the wrong end of hte stick but I think Dave Taht may have something working.

Apologies, I'm not really a mine of information.

I=E2=80=99m using powerline at the moment but fed up with it disconnecting. I think it is probably the TP-LINK adaptors I am using (known issue apparently) but wiring up the house is unpractical at the moment. I don=E2=80=99t think there is a better solution really.
--=C2=A0
Alec Robertson

On 23 April 2016 at 8:00:00 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:

Hi Alec,

I'm not familiar with TalkTalk but they sound like they do similar
things to Sky - Sky just need a 'login ID' as part of the DHCP request
packet (which funnily enough are the PPPoA/E login details)

In terms of speed sacrifice, erm, none really. I've set 40mpbs incoming
and 9990kbps for outgoing on a 40000/9999 link as reported by the
modem. Probably critically I've set the packet overheads to 12, and I
now can't remember why... there's an on-wire vlan tag (4 bytes) but the
reason for the other 8 have fallen out of the brain cell.

I've a semi-regular backup job overnight that on a bad day overruns into
the day - a week or so ago it ran for something like 2 days and I had
absolutely no idea - thinkbroadband's ping monitor was registering
something like an extra 5mS latency over the baseline, peaks were
something like 25mS - backup stats and openwrt's stats package were
registering the full 10mbps uplink in use during that time.

Does that help?

Kevin




On 23/04/16 19:40, Alec Robertson wrote:
> Dear Kevin,
>
> I am on TalkTalk which uses IPoE, so no PPPoE use at all, as far as I
> know. I certainly haven=E2=80=99t ever configured login details.
>
> How much speed do you have to sacrifice on your connection to
> eliminate bufferbloat?
>
> --
> Alec Robertson
>
> On 23 April 2016 at 10:46:35 am, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant
> (ke= vin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk <mail= to:kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk>)

> wrote:
>
>> Hi Alec,
>>
>> A brief appearance from me whilst I have a spare few seconds.
>>
>> Not stupid!
>>
>> There=E2=80=99s an obvious question: Why are Billion still shipping buffer
>> bloated devices? Have they been sent graphs/demos/logs of how their
>> kit is faulty?
>>
>> To offer some hopefully constructive pointers: For FTTC service I=E2=80=99m
>> guessing you=E2=80=99ll be using the Billion as a vdsl modem. Who=E2=80=99s the ISP?
>> AFAIK anyone other than Sky will need to run PPPoE and hence hit the
>> 1492 MTU restriction *unless* the Billion supports mini jumbo frames
>> on the ethernet side and the PPPoE MTU extension (the rfc number
>> escapes the brain at the moment) Sky don=E2=80=99t use PPP and just run
>> ethernet frames over PTM=E2=80=A6..the way it should be. The incoming
>> packets from ISP to you are policed at something close to sync rate,
>> this is part of the BT specification. The uplink of course can be as
>> bloated as hell ;-)
>>
>> I use an Archer C7 with BT=E2=80=99s equally horrendously bloated HG612 vdsl
>> modem on a 40/10 link with sky as my isp. In terms of CPU usage it=E2=80=99s
>> about 1% per megabit so a full 40/10 uses around 55% cpu, I think
>> there=E2=80=99s enough for your 60/20=E2=80=A6just.
>> https://middling.me.uk/blog/2015/03/customising-openwrt-to-my-needs/ >> offers further advice which I found useful.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 22 Apr 2016, at 23:01, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com=
>>> <mailto:alecrobertson13@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I=E2=80=99ve been out of the bufferbloat game for a while and want to try
>>> and beat it once again.
>>>
>>> I=E2=80=99ve got an FTTC connection (UK) which I get around 60Mbps on but
>>> with horrible bufferbloat on my Billion 8800NL. What router should I
>>> get that can run OpenWRT and handle this connection? Do the newest
>>> builds of OpenWRT have cake built-in now via sqm-scripts or would I
>>> need to install this manually. If so, how would I do this?
>>>
>>> Would appreciate any help and apologies if I come off in any way stupid.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alec Robertson
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Cake mailing list
 >>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:= Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>>


 

--  =20
Thanks,

Kevin@Da=
rbyshire-Bryant.me.uk
M: +44 7947 355344 H: +44 1256 478597

_________________________________= ______________
Cake mailing list
Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake


--001a113df38c9533fc053138a673--