[Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Alec Robertson]

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Hi all,

I’ve been out of the bufferbloat game for a while and want to try and beat
it once again.

I’ve got an FTTC connection (UK) which I get around 60Mbps on but with
horrible bufferbloat on my Billion 8800NL. What router should I get that
can run OpenWRT and handle this connection? Do the newest builds of OpenWRT
have cake built-in now via sqm-scripts or would I need to install this
manually. If so, how would I do this?

Would appreciate any help and apologies if I come off in any way stupid.

-- 
Alec Robertson

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Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Alec Robertson]

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Hi all,

I’ve been out of the bufferbloat game for a while and want to try and beat it once again.

I’ve got an FTTC connection (UK) which I get around 60Mbps on but with horrible bufferbloat on my Billion 8800NL. What router should I get that can run OpenWRT and handle this connection? Do the newest builds of OpenWRT have cake built-in now via sqm-scripts or would I need to install this manually. If so, how would I do this?

Would appreciate any help and apologies if I come off in any way stupid.

-- 
Alec Robertson

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Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Dave Taht]

On Fri, Apr 22, 2016 at 3:01 PM, Alec Robertson
<alecrobertson13@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I’ve been out of the bufferbloat game for a while and want to try and beat
> it once again.
>
> I’ve got an FTTC connection (UK) which I get around 60Mbps on but with
> horrible bufferbloat on my Billion 8800NL. What router should I get that can
> run OpenWRT and handle this connection? Do the newest builds of OpenWRT have
> cake built-in now via sqm-scripts or would I need to install this manually.
> If so, how would I do this?
>
> Would appreciate any help and apologies if I come off in any way stupid.

A cake enabled openwrt build is here, for several platforms.

https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914

It is a bit behind git head last I looked. I just did a pull to
ceropackages of the latest stuff, but it's not in that build yet
(works fine, is missing some new features)

Otherwise sqm-scripts using fq_codel is available on every openwrt
platform in chaos calmer and trunk, sqm-scripts works on all linux's
I've tried, also.


> --
> Alec Robertson
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>



-- 
Dave Täht
Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!
http://blog.cerowrt.org

Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant]

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Hi Alec,

A brief appearance from me whilst I have a spare few seconds.

Not stupid!

There’s an obvious question: Why are Billion still shipping buffer bloated devices?  Have they been sent graphs/demos/logs of how their kit is faulty?

To offer some hopefully constructive pointers:  For FTTC service I’m guessing you’ll be using the Billion as a vdsl modem.  Who’s the ISP?  AFAIK anyone other than Sky will need to run PPPoE and hence hit the 1492 MTU restriction *unless* the Billion supports mini jumbo frames on the ethernet side and the PPPoE MTU extension (the rfc number escapes the brain at the moment)  Sky don’t use PPP and just run ethernet frames over PTM…..the way it should be.  The incoming packets from ISP to you are policed at something close to sync rate, this is part of the BT specification.  The uplink of course can be as bloated as hell ;-)

I use an Archer C7 with BT’s equally horrendously bloated HG612 vdsl modem on a 40/10 link with sky as my isp.  In terms of CPU usage it’s about 1% per megabit so a full 40/10 uses around 55% cpu, I think there’s enough for your 60/20…just.  https://middling.me.uk/blog/2015/03/customising-openwrt-to-my-needs/ offers further advice which I found useful.

Kevin




On 22 Apr 2016, at 23:01, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com<mailto:alecrobertson13@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hi all,

I’ve been out of the bufferbloat game for a while and want to try and beat it once again.

I’ve got an FTTC connection (UK) which I get around 60Mbps on but with horrible bufferbloat on my Billion 8800NL. What router should I get that can run OpenWRT and handle this connection? Do the newest builds of OpenWRT have cake built-in now via sqm-scripts or would I need to install this manually. If so, how would I do this?

Would appreciate any help and apologies if I come off in any way stupid.

--
Alec Robertson
_______________________________________________
Cake mailing list
Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net<mailto:Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake


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Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Alec Robertson]

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Dear All,

I’ve realised that I have been responding to Kevin rather than to the mailing list - my bad!

I think I will purchase a Linksys WRT1900ACS as it seems to be fairly well regarded and is easily accessible in the UK.

How do I go about setting up Cake on it?

-- 
Alec Robertson

On 23 April 2016 at 9:00:52 pm, Alec Robertson (alecrobertson13@gmail.com) wrote:

Dear Kevin,

I did look at the Linksys WRT1200AC but it seems to get some rather poor reviews on Amazon?

-- 
Alec Robertson

On 23 April 2016 at 8:58:02 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:



On 23/04/2016 20:42, Alec Robertson wrote:
Dear Kevin,

That’s very useful thanks.

You say the TP-LINK Archer C7 should just be okay. What could I get that I know will last me for a long time? What’s got good WiFi range too?
The honest answer is I've absolutely no idea and I'm in that dilemma myself.  There's a remake of the linksys WRT range (WRT1200????) that apparently is very powerful, I guess the issue is how far along OpenWrt is.  I might have the wrong end of hte stick but I think Dave Taht may have something working.

Apologies, I'm not really a mine of information.


I’m using powerline at the moment but fed up with it disconnecting. I think it is probably the TP-LINK adaptors I am using (known issue apparently) but wiring up the house is unpractical at the moment. I don’t think there is a better solution really.

-- 
Alec Robertson

On 23 April 2016 at 8:00:00 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:

Hi Alec,

I'm not familiar with TalkTalk but they sound like they do similar
things to Sky - Sky just need a 'login ID' as part of the DHCP request
packet (which funnily enough are the PPPoA/E login details)

In terms of speed sacrifice, erm, none really. I've set 40mpbs incoming
and 9990kbps for outgoing on a 40000/9999 link as reported by the
modem. Probably critically I've set the packet overheads to 12, and I
now can't remember why... there's an on-wire vlan tag (4 bytes) but the
reason for the other 8 have fallen out of the brain cell.

I've a semi-regular backup job overnight that on a bad day overruns into
the day - a week or so ago it ran for something like 2 days and I had
absolutely no idea - thinkbroadband's ping monitor was registering
something like an extra 5mS latency over the baseline, peaks were
something like 25mS - backup stats and openwrt's stats package were
registering the full 10mbps uplink in use during that time.

Does that help?

Kevin




On 23/04/16 19:40, Alec Robertson wrote:
> Dear Kevin,
>
> I am on TalkTalk which uses IPoE, so no PPPoE use at all, as far as I
> know. I certainly haven’t ever configured login details.
>
> How much speed do you have to sacrifice on your connection to
> eliminate bufferbloat?
>
> --
> Alec Robertson
>
> On 23 April 2016 at 10:46:35 am, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant
> (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk <mailto:kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk>)
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Alec,
>>
>> A brief appearance from me whilst I have a spare few seconds.
>>
>> Not stupid!
>>
>> There’s an obvious question: Why are Billion still shipping buffer
>> bloated devices? Have they been sent graphs/demos/logs of how their
>> kit is faulty?
>>
>> To offer some hopefully constructive pointers: For FTTC service I’m
>> guessing you’ll be using the Billion as a vdsl modem. Who’s the ISP?
>> AFAIK anyone other than Sky will need to run PPPoE and hence hit the
>> 1492 MTU restriction *unless* the Billion supports mini jumbo frames
>> on the ethernet side and the PPPoE MTU extension (the rfc number
>> escapes the brain at the moment) Sky don’t use PPP and just run
>> ethernet frames over PTM…..the way it should be. The incoming
>> packets from ISP to you are policed at something close to sync rate,
>> this is part of the BT specification. The uplink of course can be as
>> bloated as hell ;-)
>>
>> I use an Archer C7 with BT’s equally horrendously bloated HG612 vdsl
>> modem on a 40/10 link with sky as my isp. In terms of CPU usage it’s
>> about 1% per megabit so a full 40/10 uses around 55% cpu, I think
>> there’s enough for your 60/20…just.
>> https://middling.me.uk/blog/2015/03/customising-openwrt-to-my-needs/
>> offers further advice which I found useful.
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 22 Apr 2016, at 23:01, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com
>>> <mailto:alecrobertson13@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I’ve been out of the bufferbloat game for a while and want to try
>>> and beat it once again.
>>>
>>> I’ve got an FTTC connection (UK) which I get around 60Mbps on but
>>> with horrible bufferbloat on my Billion 8800NL. What router should I
>>> get that can run OpenWRT and handle this connection? Do the newest
>>> builds of OpenWRT have cake built-in now via sqm-scripts or would I
>>> need to install this manually. If so, how would I do this?
>>>
>>> Would appreciate any help and apologies if I come off in any way stupid.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alec Robertson
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Cake mailing list
>>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>>



--   
Thanks,

Kevin@Darbyshire-Bryant.me.uk
M: +44 7947 355344 H: +44 1256 478597

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Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Arie]

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If you want a very recent cake version, you could use my build from here:
http://ariekanarie.nl/openwrt/mvebu/ It's based on the very feature heavy
OpenWRT build by trondah ( https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914
), but using more recent cerowrt and cake stuff.

You'll want to flash the shelby factory.img if still on stock firmware,
else shelby sysupgrade.tar.



On 24 April 2016 at 00:22, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
> I’ve realised that I have been responding to Kevin rather than to the
> mailing list - my bad!
>
> I think I will purchase a Linksys WRT1900ACS as it seems to be fairly well
> regarded and is easily accessible in the UK.
>
> How do I go about setting up Cake on it?
>
> --
> Alec Robertson
>
> On 23 April 2016 at 9:00:52 pm, Alec Robertson (alecrobertson13@gmail.com)
> wrote:
>
> Dear Kevin,
>
> I did look at the Linksys WRT1200AC but it seems to get some rather poor
> reviews on Amazon?
>
> --
> Alec Robertson
>
> On 23 April 2016 at 8:58:02 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant (
> kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:
>
>
>
> On 23/04/2016 20:42, Alec Robertson wrote:
>
> Dear Kevin,
>
> That’s very useful thanks.
>
> You say the TP-LINK Archer C7 should *just* be okay. What could I get
> that I know will last me for a long time? What’s got good WiFi range too?
>
> The honest answer is I've absolutely no idea and I'm in that dilemma
> myself.  There's a remake of the linksys WRT range (WRT1200????) that
> apparently is very powerful, I guess the issue is how far along OpenWrt
> is.  I might have the wrong end of hte stick but I think Dave Taht may have
> something working.
>
> Apologies, I'm not really a mine of information.
>
>
> I’m using powerline at the moment but fed up with it disconnecting. I
> think it is probably the TP-LINK adaptors I am using (known issue
> apparently) but wiring up the house is unpractical at the moment. I don’t
> think there is a better solution really.
>
> --
> Alec Robertson
>
> On 23 April 2016 at 8:00:00 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant (
> kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:
>
> Hi Alec,
>
> I'm not familiar with TalkTalk but they sound like they do similar
> things to Sky - Sky just need a 'login ID' as part of the DHCP request
> packet (which funnily enough are the PPPoA/E login details)
>
> In terms of speed sacrifice, erm, none really. I've set 40mpbs incoming
> and 9990kbps for outgoing on a 40000/9999 link as reported by the
> modem. Probably critically I've set the packet overheads to 12, and I
> now can't remember why... there's an on-wire vlan tag (4 bytes) but the
> reason for the other 8 have fallen out of the brain cell.
>
> I've a semi-regular backup job overnight that on a bad day overruns into
> the day - a week or so ago it ran for something like 2 days and I had
> absolutely no idea - thinkbroadband's ping monitor was registering
> something like an extra 5mS latency over the baseline, peaks were
> something like 25mS - backup stats and openwrt's stats package were
> registering the full 10mbps uplink in use during that time.
>
> Does that help?
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
> On 23/04/16 19:40, Alec Robertson wrote:
> > Dear Kevin,
> >
> > I am on TalkTalk which uses IPoE, so no PPPoE use at all, as far as I
> > know. I certainly haven’t ever configured login details.
> >
> > How much speed do you have to sacrifice on your connection to
> > eliminate bufferbloat?
> >
> > --
> > Alec Robertson
> >
> > On 23 April 2016 at 10:46:35 am, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant
> > (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk <mailto:kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk>
> <kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk>)
>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Alec,
> >>
> >> A brief appearance from me whilst I have a spare few seconds.
> >>
> >> Not stupid!
> >>
> >> There’s an obvious question: Why are Billion still shipping buffer
> >> bloated devices? Have they been sent graphs/demos/logs of how their
> >> kit is faulty?
> >>
> >> To offer some hopefully constructive pointers: For FTTC service I’m
> >> guessing you’ll be using the Billion as a vdsl modem. Who’s the ISP?
> >> AFAIK anyone other than Sky will need to run PPPoE and hence hit the
> >> 1492 MTU restriction *unless* the Billion supports mini jumbo frames
> >> on the ethernet side and the PPPoE MTU extension (the rfc number
> >> escapes the brain at the moment) Sky don’t use PPP and just run
> >> ethernet frames over PTM…..the way it should be. The incoming
> >> packets from ISP to you are policed at something close to sync rate,
> >> this is part of the BT specification. The uplink of course can be as
> >> bloated as hell ;-)
> >>
> >> I use an Archer C7 with BT’s equally horrendously bloated HG612 vdsl
> >> modem on a 40/10 link with sky as my isp. In terms of CPU usage it’s
> >> about 1% per megabit so a full 40/10 uses around 55% cpu, I think
> >> there’s enough for your 60/20…just.
> >> https://middling.me.uk/blog/2015/03/customising-openwrt-to-my-needs/
> >> offers further advice which I found useful.
> >>
> >> Kevin
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 22 Apr 2016, at 23:01, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:alecrobertson13@gmail.com> <alecrobertson13@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I’ve been out of the bufferbloat game for a while and want to try
> >>> and beat it once again.
> >>>
> >>> I’ve got an FTTC connection (UK) which I get around 60Mbps on but
> >>> with horrible bufferbloat on my Billion 8800NL. What router should I
> >>> get that can run OpenWRT and handle this connection? Do the newest
> >>> builds of OpenWRT have cake built-in now via sqm-scripts or would I
> >>> need to install this manually. If so, how would I do this?
> >>>
> >>> Would appreciate any help and apologies if I come off in any way
> stupid.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Alec Robertson
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Cake mailing list
> >>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> <Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
> >>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
>
> --
> Thanks,
> Kevin@Darbyshire-Bryant.me.uk
> M: +44 7947 355344 H: +44 1256 478597
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>
>

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Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Dave Taht]

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 3:37 AM, Arie <nospam@ariekanarie.nl> wrote:
> If you want a very recent cake version, you could use my build from here:
> http://ariekanarie.nl/openwrt/mvebu/ It's based on the very feature heavy
> OpenWRT build by trondah ( https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914
> ), but using more recent cerowrt and cake stuff.
>
> You'll want to flash the shelby factory.img if still on stock firmware, else
> shelby sysupgrade.tar.

Thank you! I flashed the caiman build to my linksys box That has the
correct looking cake in it.

Unfortunately babeld is not in that build, could you stick it in? (I
am heavily reliant on that to get around my insanely complex testbed)

It is also based on the 4.1.20 kernel (thought openwrt was on 4.4). I
have had all sorts of weird issues with sending test traffic to the
prior build (flow starvation), will try this.

It is nice to finally see the triple-isolate feature land somewhere it
could be tested.


root@linksys1200ac opkg# tc -s qdisc show dev eth0
qdisc cake 800d: root refcnt 9 bandwidth 14Mbit diffserv4
triple-isolate rtt 100.0ms raw
 Sent 802270 bytes 2932 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 403 requeues 0)
 backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
 memory used: 21528b of 700000b
 capacity estimate: 14Mbit
             Bulk    Best Effort     Video       Voice
  thresh        14Mbit   13125Kbit   10500Kbit    3500Kbit
  target         5.0ms       5.0ms       5.0ms       5.2ms
  interval     100.0ms     100.0ms     100.0ms     100.2ms
  pk_delay         1us       287us        14us         2us
  av_delay         0us        44us         0us         1us
  sp_delay         0us         1us         0us         0us
  pkts              67        1302          72        1491
  bytes          10935      529189        6480      255666
  way_inds           0           0           0           3
  way_miss          40          44          72         931
  way_cols           0           0           0           0
  drops              0           0           0           0
  marks              0           0           0           0
  sp_flows           0           0           0           1
  bk_flows           0           0           0           0
  last_len         171         609          90         171
  max_len          187        3028          90         483




>
>
>
> On 24 April 2016 at 00:22, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I’ve realised that I have been responding to Kevin rather than to the
>> mailing list - my bad!
>>
>> I think I will purchase a Linksys WRT1900ACS as it seems to be fairly well
>> regarded and is easily accessible in the UK.
>>
>> How do I go about setting up Cake on it?
>>
>> --
>> Alec Robertson
>>
>> On 23 April 2016 at 9:00:52 pm, Alec Robertson (alecrobertson13@gmail.com)
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Kevin,
>>
>> I did look at the Linksys WRT1200AC but it seems to get some rather poor
>> reviews on Amazon?
>>
>> --
>> Alec Robertson
>>
>> On 23 April 2016 at 8:58:02 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant
>> (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23/04/2016 20:42, Alec Robertson wrote:
>>
>> Dear Kevin,
>>
>> That’s very useful thanks.
>>
>> You say the TP-LINK Archer C7 should just be okay. What could I get that I
>> know will last me for a long time? What’s got good WiFi range too?
>>
>> The honest answer is I've absolutely no idea and I'm in that dilemma
>> myself.  There's a remake of the linksys WRT range (WRT1200????) that
>> apparently is very powerful, I guess the issue is how far along OpenWrt is.
>> I might have the wrong end of hte stick but I think Dave Taht may have
>> something working.
>>
>> Apologies, I'm not really a mine of information.
>>
>>
>> I’m using powerline at the moment but fed up with it disconnecting. I
>> think it is probably the TP-LINK adaptors I am using (known issue
>> apparently) but wiring up the house is unpractical at the moment. I don’t
>> think there is a better solution really.
>>
>> --
>> Alec Robertson
>>
>> On 23 April 2016 at 8:00:00 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant
>> (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alec,
>>
>> I'm not familiar with TalkTalk but they sound like they do similar
>> things to Sky - Sky just need a 'login ID' as part of the DHCP request
>> packet (which funnily enough are the PPPoA/E login details)
>>
>> In terms of speed sacrifice, erm, none really. I've set 40mpbs incoming
>> and 9990kbps for outgoing on a 40000/9999 link as reported by the
>> modem. Probably critically I've set the packet overheads to 12, and I
>> now can't remember why... there's an on-wire vlan tag (4 bytes) but the
>> reason for the other 8 have fallen out of the brain cell.
>>
>> I've a semi-regular backup job overnight that on a bad day overruns into
>> the day - a week or so ago it ran for something like 2 days and I had
>> absolutely no idea - thinkbroadband's ping monitor was registering
>> something like an extra 5mS latency over the baseline, peaks were
>> something like 25mS - backup stats and openwrt's stats package were
>> registering the full 10mbps uplink in use during that time.
>>
>> Does that help?
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23/04/16 19:40, Alec Robertson wrote:
>> > Dear Kevin,
>> >
>> > I am on TalkTalk which uses IPoE, so no PPPoE use at all, as far as I
>> > know. I certainly haven’t ever configured login details.
>> >
>> > How much speed do you have to sacrifice on your connection to
>> > eliminate bufferbloat?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Alec Robertson
>> >
>> > On 23 April 2016 at 10:46:35 am, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant
>> > (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk <mailto:kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk>)
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Alec,
>> >>
>> >> A brief appearance from me whilst I have a spare few seconds.
>> >>
>> >> Not stupid!
>> >>
>> >> There’s an obvious question: Why are Billion still shipping buffer
>> >> bloated devices? Have they been sent graphs/demos/logs of how their
>> >> kit is faulty?
>> >>
>> >> To offer some hopefully constructive pointers: For FTTC service I’m
>> >> guessing you’ll be using the Billion as a vdsl modem. Who’s the ISP?
>> >> AFAIK anyone other than Sky will need to run PPPoE and hence hit the
>> >> 1492 MTU restriction *unless* the Billion supports mini jumbo frames
>> >> on the ethernet side and the PPPoE MTU extension (the rfc number
>> >> escapes the brain at the moment) Sky don’t use PPP and just run
>> >> ethernet frames over PTM…..the way it should be. The incoming
>> >> packets from ISP to you are policed at something close to sync rate,
>> >> this is part of the BT specification. The uplink of course can be as
>> >> bloated as hell ;-)
>> >>
>> >> I use an Archer C7 with BT’s equally horrendously bloated HG612 vdsl
>> >> modem on a 40/10 link with sky as my isp. In terms of CPU usage it’s
>> >> about 1% per megabit so a full 40/10 uses around 55% cpu, I think
>> >> there’s enough for your 60/20…just.
>> >> https://middling.me.uk/blog/2015/03/customising-openwrt-to-my-needs/
>> >> offers further advice which I found useful.
>> >>
>> >> Kevin
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On 22 Apr 2016, at 23:01, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com
>> >>> <mailto:alecrobertson13@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>>
>> >>> I’ve been out of the bufferbloat game for a while and want to try
>> >>> and beat it once again.
>> >>>
>> >>> I’ve got an FTTC connection (UK) which I get around 60Mbps on but
>> >>> with horrible bufferbloat on my Billion 8800NL. What router should I
>> >>> get that can run OpenWRT and handle this connection? Do the newest
>> >>> builds of OpenWRT have cake built-in now via sqm-scripts or would I
>> >>> need to install this manually. If so, how would I do this?
>> >>>
>> >>> Would appreciate any help and apologies if I come off in any way
>> >>> stupid.
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Alec Robertson
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Cake mailing list
>> >>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>
>> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kevin@Darbyshire-Bryant.me.uk
>> M: +44 7947 355344 H: +44 1256 478597
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cake mailing list
>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>



-- 
Dave Täht
Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!
http://blog.cerowrt.org

Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Dave Taht]

It turns out babeld from trunk worked, so I'm happy. I still have not
the foggiest idea as to how to go about testing the triple-isolate
feature....

On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 9:01 AM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 3:37 AM, Arie <nospam@ariekanarie.nl> wrote:
>> If you want a very recent cake version, you could use my build from here:
>> http://ariekanarie.nl/openwrt/mvebu/ It's based on the very feature heavy
>> OpenWRT build by trondah ( https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914
>> ), but using more recent cerowrt and cake stuff.
>>
>> You'll want to flash the shelby factory.img if still on stock firmware, else
>> shelby sysupgrade.tar.
>
> Thank you! I flashed the caiman build to my linksys box That has the
> correct looking cake in it.
>
> Unfortunately babeld is not in that build, could you stick it in? (I
> am heavily reliant on that to get around my insanely complex testbed)
>
> It is also based on the 4.1.20 kernel (thought openwrt was on 4.4). I
> have had all sorts of weird issues with sending test traffic to the
> prior build (flow starvation), will try this.
>
> It is nice to finally see the triple-isolate feature land somewhere it
> could be tested.
>
>
> root@linksys1200ac opkg# tc -s qdisc show dev eth0
> qdisc cake 800d: root refcnt 9 bandwidth 14Mbit diffserv4
> triple-isolate rtt 100.0ms raw
>  Sent 802270 bytes 2932 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 403 requeues 0)
>  backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
>  memory used: 21528b of 700000b
>  capacity estimate: 14Mbit
>              Bulk    Best Effort     Video       Voice
>   thresh        14Mbit   13125Kbit   10500Kbit    3500Kbit
>   target         5.0ms       5.0ms       5.0ms       5.2ms
>   interval     100.0ms     100.0ms     100.0ms     100.2ms
>   pk_delay         1us       287us        14us         2us
>   av_delay         0us        44us         0us         1us
>   sp_delay         0us         1us         0us         0us
>   pkts              67        1302          72        1491
>   bytes          10935      529189        6480      255666
>   way_inds           0           0           0           3
>   way_miss          40          44          72         931
>   way_cols           0           0           0           0
>   drops              0           0           0           0
>   marks              0           0           0           0
>   sp_flows           0           0           0           1
>   bk_flows           0           0           0           0
>   last_len         171         609          90         171
>   max_len          187        3028          90         483
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 24 April 2016 at 00:22, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> I’ve realised that I have been responding to Kevin rather than to the
>>> mailing list - my bad!
>>>
>>> I think I will purchase a Linksys WRT1900ACS as it seems to be fairly well
>>> regarded and is easily accessible in the UK.
>>>
>>> How do I go about setting up Cake on it?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alec Robertson
>>>
>>> On 23 April 2016 at 9:00:52 pm, Alec Robertson (alecrobertson13@gmail.com)
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Kevin,
>>>
>>> I did look at the Linksys WRT1200AC but it seems to get some rather poor
>>> reviews on Amazon?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alec Robertson
>>>
>>> On 23 April 2016 at 8:58:02 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant
>>> (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23/04/2016 20:42, Alec Robertson wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Kevin,
>>>
>>> That’s very useful thanks.
>>>
>>> You say the TP-LINK Archer C7 should just be okay. What could I get that I
>>> know will last me for a long time? What’s got good WiFi range too?
>>>
>>> The honest answer is I've absolutely no idea and I'm in that dilemma
>>> myself.  There's a remake of the linksys WRT range (WRT1200????) that
>>> apparently is very powerful, I guess the issue is how far along OpenWrt is.
>>> I might have the wrong end of hte stick but I think Dave Taht may have
>>> something working.
>>>
>>> Apologies, I'm not really a mine of information.
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m using powerline at the moment but fed up with it disconnecting. I
>>> think it is probably the TP-LINK adaptors I am using (known issue
>>> apparently) but wiring up the house is unpractical at the moment. I don’t
>>> think there is a better solution really.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Alec Robertson
>>>
>>> On 23 April 2016 at 8:00:00 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant
>>> (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Alec,
>>>
>>> I'm not familiar with TalkTalk but they sound like they do similar
>>> things to Sky - Sky just need a 'login ID' as part of the DHCP request
>>> packet (which funnily enough are the PPPoA/E login details)
>>>
>>> In terms of speed sacrifice, erm, none really. I've set 40mpbs incoming
>>> and 9990kbps for outgoing on a 40000/9999 link as reported by the
>>> modem. Probably critically I've set the packet overheads to 12, and I
>>> now can't remember why... there's an on-wire vlan tag (4 bytes) but the
>>> reason for the other 8 have fallen out of the brain cell.
>>>
>>> I've a semi-regular backup job overnight that on a bad day overruns into
>>> the day - a week or so ago it ran for something like 2 days and I had
>>> absolutely no idea - thinkbroadband's ping monitor was registering
>>> something like an extra 5mS latency over the baseline, peaks were
>>> something like 25mS - backup stats and openwrt's stats package were
>>> registering the full 10mbps uplink in use during that time.
>>>
>>> Does that help?
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 23/04/16 19:40, Alec Robertson wrote:
>>> > Dear Kevin,
>>> >
>>> > I am on TalkTalk which uses IPoE, so no PPPoE use at all, as far as I
>>> > know. I certainly haven’t ever configured login details.
>>> >
>>> > How much speed do you have to sacrifice on your connection to
>>> > eliminate bufferbloat?
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Alec Robertson
>>> >
>>> > On 23 April 2016 at 10:46:35 am, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant
>>> > (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk <mailto:kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk>)
>>>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Hi Alec,
>>> >>
>>> >> A brief appearance from me whilst I have a spare few seconds.
>>> >>
>>> >> Not stupid!
>>> >>
>>> >> There’s an obvious question: Why are Billion still shipping buffer
>>> >> bloated devices? Have they been sent graphs/demos/logs of how their
>>> >> kit is faulty?
>>> >>
>>> >> To offer some hopefully constructive pointers: For FTTC service I’m
>>> >> guessing you’ll be using the Billion as a vdsl modem. Who’s the ISP?
>>> >> AFAIK anyone other than Sky will need to run PPPoE and hence hit the
>>> >> 1492 MTU restriction *unless* the Billion supports mini jumbo frames
>>> >> on the ethernet side and the PPPoE MTU extension (the rfc number
>>> >> escapes the brain at the moment) Sky don’t use PPP and just run
>>> >> ethernet frames over PTM…..the way it should be. The incoming
>>> >> packets from ISP to you are policed at something close to sync rate,
>>> >> this is part of the BT specification. The uplink of course can be as
>>> >> bloated as hell ;-)
>>> >>
>>> >> I use an Archer C7 with BT’s equally horrendously bloated HG612 vdsl
>>> >> modem on a 40/10 link with sky as my isp. In terms of CPU usage it’s
>>> >> about 1% per megabit so a full 40/10 uses around 55% cpu, I think
>>> >> there’s enough for your 60/20…just.
>>> >> https://middling.me.uk/blog/2015/03/customising-openwrt-to-my-needs/
>>> >> offers further advice which I found useful.
>>> >>
>>> >> Kevin
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> On 22 Apr 2016, at 23:01, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com
>>> >>> <mailto:alecrobertson13@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Hi all,
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I’ve been out of the bufferbloat game for a while and want to try
>>> >>> and beat it once again.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I’ve got an FTTC connection (UK) which I get around 60Mbps on but
>>> >>> with horrible bufferbloat on my Billion 8800NL. What router should I
>>> >>> get that can run OpenWRT and handle this connection? Do the newest
>>> >>> builds of OpenWRT have cake built-in now via sqm-scripts or would I
>>> >>> need to install this manually. If so, how would I do this?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Would appreciate any help and apologies if I come off in any way
>>> >>> stupid.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> --
>>> >>> Alec Robertson
>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>> >>> Cake mailing list
>>> >>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>
>>> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Kevin@Darbyshire-Bryant.me.uk
>>> M: +44 7947 355344 H: +44 1256 478597
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Cake mailing list
>>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cake mailing list
>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dave Täht
> Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!
> http://blog.cerowrt.org



-- 
Dave Täht
Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!
http://blog.cerowrt.org

Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Dave Taht]

I am using this build. one thing that failed twice recently was the
dnscrypt stuff (for no reason I can discern). I ended up disabling it
this morning.

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 3:37 AM, Arie <nospam@ariekanarie.nl> wrote:
> If you want a very recent cake version, you could use my build from here:
> http://ariekanarie.nl/openwrt/mvebu/ It's based on the very feature heavy
> OpenWRT build by trondah ( https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914
> ), but using more recent cerowrt and cake stuff.
>
> You'll want to flash the shelby factory.img if still on stock firmware, else
> shelby sysupgrade.tar.
>
>
>
> On 24 April 2016 at 00:22, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear All,
>>
>> I’ve realised that I have been responding to Kevin rather than to the
>> mailing list - my bad!
>>
>> I think I will purchase a Linksys WRT1900ACS as it seems to be fairly well
>> regarded and is easily accessible in the UK.
>>
>> How do I go about setting up Cake on it?
>>
>> --
>> Alec Robertson
>>
>> On 23 April 2016 at 9:00:52 pm, Alec Robertson (alecrobertson13@gmail.com)
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Kevin,
>>
>> I did look at the Linksys WRT1200AC but it seems to get some rather poor
>> reviews on Amazon?
>>
>> --
>> Alec Robertson
>>
>> On 23 April 2016 at 8:58:02 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant
>> (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23/04/2016 20:42, Alec Robertson wrote:
>>
>> Dear Kevin,
>>
>> That’s very useful thanks.
>>
>> You say the TP-LINK Archer C7 should just be okay. What could I get that I
>> know will last me for a long time? What’s got good WiFi range too?
>>
>> The honest answer is I've absolutely no idea and I'm in that dilemma
>> myself.  There's a remake of the linksys WRT range (WRT1200????) that
>> apparently is very powerful, I guess the issue is how far along OpenWrt is.
>> I might have the wrong end of hte stick but I think Dave Taht may have
>> something working.
>>
>> Apologies, I'm not really a mine of information.
>>
>>
>> I’m using powerline at the moment but fed up with it disconnecting. I
>> think it is probably the TP-LINK adaptors I am using (known issue
>> apparently) but wiring up the house is unpractical at the moment. I don’t
>> think there is a better solution really.
>>
>> --
>> Alec Robertson
>>
>> On 23 April 2016 at 8:00:00 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant
>> (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:
>>
>> Hi Alec,
>>
>> I'm not familiar with TalkTalk but they sound like they do similar
>> things to Sky - Sky just need a 'login ID' as part of the DHCP request
>> packet (which funnily enough are the PPPoA/E login details)
>>
>> In terms of speed sacrifice, erm, none really. I've set 40mpbs incoming
>> and 9990kbps for outgoing on a 40000/9999 link as reported by the
>> modem. Probably critically I've set the packet overheads to 12, and I
>> now can't remember why... there's an on-wire vlan tag (4 bytes) but the
>> reason for the other 8 have fallen out of the brain cell.
>>
>> I've a semi-regular backup job overnight that on a bad day overruns into
>> the day - a week or so ago it ran for something like 2 days and I had
>> absolutely no idea - thinkbroadband's ping monitor was registering
>> something like an extra 5mS latency over the baseline, peaks were
>> something like 25mS - backup stats and openwrt's stats package were
>> registering the full 10mbps uplink in use during that time.
>>
>> Does that help?
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23/04/16 19:40, Alec Robertson wrote:
>> > Dear Kevin,
>> >
>> > I am on TalkTalk which uses IPoE, so no PPPoE use at all, as far as I
>> > know. I certainly haven’t ever configured login details.
>> >
>> > How much speed do you have to sacrifice on your connection to
>> > eliminate bufferbloat?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Alec Robertson
>> >
>> > On 23 April 2016 at 10:46:35 am, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant
>> > (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk <mailto:kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk>)
>>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Alec,
>> >>
>> >> A brief appearance from me whilst I have a spare few seconds.
>> >>
>> >> Not stupid!
>> >>
>> >> There’s an obvious question: Why are Billion still shipping buffer
>> >> bloated devices? Have they been sent graphs/demos/logs of how their
>> >> kit is faulty?
>> >>
>> >> To offer some hopefully constructive pointers: For FTTC service I’m
>> >> guessing you’ll be using the Billion as a vdsl modem. Who’s the ISP?
>> >> AFAIK anyone other than Sky will need to run PPPoE and hence hit the
>> >> 1492 MTU restriction *unless* the Billion supports mini jumbo frames
>> >> on the ethernet side and the PPPoE MTU extension (the rfc number
>> >> escapes the brain at the moment) Sky don’t use PPP and just run
>> >> ethernet frames over PTM…..the way it should be. The incoming
>> >> packets from ISP to you are policed at something close to sync rate,
>> >> this is part of the BT specification. The uplink of course can be as
>> >> bloated as hell ;-)
>> >>
>> >> I use an Archer C7 with BT’s equally horrendously bloated HG612 vdsl
>> >> modem on a 40/10 link with sky as my isp. In terms of CPU usage it’s
>> >> about 1% per megabit so a full 40/10 uses around 55% cpu, I think
>> >> there’s enough for your 60/20…just.
>> >> https://middling.me.uk/blog/2015/03/customising-openwrt-to-my-needs/
>> >> offers further advice which I found useful.
>> >>
>> >> Kevin
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On 22 Apr 2016, at 23:01, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com
>> >>> <mailto:alecrobertson13@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Hi all,
>> >>>
>> >>> I’ve been out of the bufferbloat game for a while and want to try
>> >>> and beat it once again.
>> >>>
>> >>> I’ve got an FTTC connection (UK) which I get around 60Mbps on but
>> >>> with horrible bufferbloat on my Billion 8800NL. What router should I
>> >>> get that can run OpenWRT and handle this connection? Do the newest
>> >>> builds of OpenWRT have cake built-in now via sqm-scripts or would I
>> >>> need to install this manually. If so, how would I do this?
>> >>>
>> >>> Would appreciate any help and apologies if I come off in any way
>> >>> stupid.
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Alec Robertson
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Cake mailing list
>> >>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>
>> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>> >>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Kevin@Darbyshire-Bryant.me.uk
>> M: +44 7947 355344 H: +44 1256 478597
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cake mailing list
>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>



-- 
Dave Täht
Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!
http://blog.cerowrt.org

Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Alec Robertson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 7779 bytes --]

Dear All,

I now have the TP-Link Archer C7. Would it be possible to have a walkthrough of setting it up to beat bufferbloat on my FTTC connection?

-- 
Alec Robertson

On 29 April 2016 at 3:58:55 pm, Dave Taht (dave.taht@gmail.com) wrote:

I am using this build. one thing that failed twice recently was the  
dnscrypt stuff (for no reason I can discern). I ended up disabling it  
this morning.  

On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 3:37 AM, Arie <nospam@ariekanarie.nl> wrote:  
> If you want a very recent cake version, you could use my build from here:  
> http://ariekanarie.nl/openwrt/mvebu/ It's based on the very feature heavy  
> OpenWRT build by trondah ( https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914  
> ), but using more recent cerowrt and cake stuff.  
>  
> You'll want to flash the shelby factory.img if still on stock firmware, else  
> shelby sysupgrade.tar.  
>  
>  
>  
> On 24 April 2016 at 00:22, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com> wrote:  
>>  
>> Dear All,  
>>  
>> I’ve realised that I have been responding to Kevin rather than to the  
>> mailing list - my bad!  
>>  
>> I think I will purchase a Linksys WRT1900ACS as it seems to be fairly well  
>> regarded and is easily accessible in the UK.  
>>  
>> How do I go about setting up Cake on it?  
>>  
>> --  
>> Alec Robertson  
>>  
>> On 23 April 2016 at 9:00:52 pm, Alec Robertson (alecrobertson13@gmail.com)  
>> wrote:  
>>  
>> Dear Kevin,  
>>  
>> I did look at the Linksys WRT1200AC but it seems to get some rather poor  
>> reviews on Amazon?  
>>  
>> --  
>> Alec Robertson  
>>  
>> On 23 April 2016 at 8:58:02 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant  
>> (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> On 23/04/2016 20:42, Alec Robertson wrote:  
>>  
>> Dear Kevin,  
>>  
>> That’s very useful thanks.  
>>  
>> You say the TP-LINK Archer C7 should just be okay. What could I get that I  
>> know will last me for a long time? What’s got good WiFi range too?  
>>  
>> The honest answer is I've absolutely no idea and I'm in that dilemma  
>> myself. There's a remake of the linksys WRT range (WRT1200????) that  
>> apparently is very powerful, I guess the issue is how far along OpenWrt is.  
>> I might have the wrong end of hte stick but I think Dave Taht may have  
>> something working.  
>>  
>> Apologies, I'm not really a mine of information.  
>>  
>>  
>> I’m using powerline at the moment but fed up with it disconnecting. I  
>> think it is probably the TP-LINK adaptors I am using (known issue  
>> apparently) but wiring up the house is unpractical at the moment. I don’t  
>> think there is a better solution really.  
>>  
>> --  
>> Alec Robertson  
>>  
>> On 23 April 2016 at 8:00:00 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant  
>> (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:  
>>  
>> Hi Alec,  
>>  
>> I'm not familiar with TalkTalk but they sound like they do similar  
>> things to Sky - Sky just need a 'login ID' as part of the DHCP request  
>> packet (which funnily enough are the PPPoA/E login details)  
>>  
>> In terms of speed sacrifice, erm, none really. I've set 40mpbs incoming  
>> and 9990kbps for outgoing on a 40000/9999 link as reported by the  
>> modem. Probably critically I've set the packet overheads to 12, and I  
>> now can't remember why... there's an on-wire vlan tag (4 bytes) but the  
>> reason for the other 8 have fallen out of the brain cell.  
>>  
>> I've a semi-regular backup job overnight that on a bad day overruns into  
>> the day - a week or so ago it ran for something like 2 days and I had  
>> absolutely no idea - thinkbroadband's ping monitor was registering  
>> something like an extra 5mS latency over the baseline, peaks were  
>> something like 25mS - backup stats and openwrt's stats package were  
>> registering the full 10mbps uplink in use during that time.  
>>  
>> Does that help?  
>>  
>> Kevin  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> On 23/04/16 19:40, Alec Robertson wrote:  
>> > Dear Kevin,  
>> >  
>> > I am on TalkTalk which uses IPoE, so no PPPoE use at all, as far as I  
>> > know. I certainly haven’t ever configured login details.  
>> >  
>> > How much speed do you have to sacrifice on your connection to  
>> > eliminate bufferbloat?  
>> >  
>> > --  
>> > Alec Robertson  
>> >  
>> > On 23 April 2016 at 10:46:35 am, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant  
>> > (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk <mailto:kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk>)  
>>  
>> > wrote:  
>> >  
>> >> Hi Alec,  
>> >>  
>> >> A brief appearance from me whilst I have a spare few seconds.  
>> >>  
>> >> Not stupid!  
>> >>  
>> >> There’s an obvious question: Why are Billion still shipping buffer  
>> >> bloated devices? Have they been sent graphs/demos/logs of how their  
>> >> kit is faulty?  
>> >>  
>> >> To offer some hopefully constructive pointers: For FTTC service I’m  
>> >> guessing you’ll be using the Billion as a vdsl modem. Who’s the ISP?  
>> >> AFAIK anyone other than Sky will need to run PPPoE and hence hit the  
>> >> 1492 MTU restriction *unless* the Billion supports mini jumbo frames  
>> >> on the ethernet side and the PPPoE MTU extension (the rfc number  
>> >> escapes the brain at the moment) Sky don’t use PPP and just run  
>> >> ethernet frames over PTM…..the way it should be. The incoming  
>> >> packets from ISP to you are policed at something close to sync rate,  
>> >> this is part of the BT specification. The uplink of course can be as  
>> >> bloated as hell ;-)  
>> >>  
>> >> I use an Archer C7 with BT’s equally horrendously bloated HG612 vdsl  
>> >> modem on a 40/10 link with sky as my isp. In terms of CPU usage it’s  
>> >> about 1% per megabit so a full 40/10 uses around 55% cpu, I think  
>> >> there’s enough for your 60/20…just.  
>> >> https://middling.me.uk/blog/2015/03/customising-openwrt-to-my-needs/  
>> >> offers further advice which I found useful.  
>> >>  
>> >> Kevin  
>> >>  
>> >>  
>> >>  
>> >>  
>> >>> On 22 Apr 2016, at 23:01, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com  
>> >>> <mailto:alecrobertson13@gmail.com>> wrote:  
>> >>>  
>> >>> Hi all,  
>> >>>  
>> >>> I’ve been out of the bufferbloat game for a while and want to try  
>> >>> and beat it once again.  
>> >>>  
>> >>> I’ve got an FTTC connection (UK) which I get around 60Mbps on but  
>> >>> with horrible bufferbloat on my Billion 8800NL. What router should I  
>> >>> get that can run OpenWRT and handle this connection? Do the newest  
>> >>> builds of OpenWRT have cake built-in now via sqm-scripts or would I  
>> >>> need to install this manually. If so, how would I do this?  
>> >>>  
>> >>> Would appreciate any help and apologies if I come off in any way  
>> >>> stupid.  
>> >>>  
>> >>> --  
>> >>> Alec Robertson  
>> >>> _______________________________________________  
>> >>> Cake mailing list  
>> >>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>  
>> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake  
>> >>  
>>  
>>  
>> ________________________________  
>>  
>>  
>> --  
>> Thanks,  
>>  
>> Kevin@Darbyshire-Bryant.me.uk  
>> M: +44 7947 355344 H: +44 1256 478597  
>>  
>>  
>> _______________________________________________  
>> Cake mailing list  
>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net  
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake  
>>  
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________  
> Cake mailing list  
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net  
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake  
>  



--  
Dave Täht  
Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!  
http://blog.cerowrt.org  

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Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Sebastian Moeller]

Hi Alec

On May 1, 2016 2:18:06 PM GMT+02:00, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com> wrote:
>Dear All,
>
>I now have the TP-Link Archer C7. Would it be possible to have a
>walkthrough of setting it up to beat bufferbloat on my FTTC connection?


Rich Brown wrote a nice introduction/How-To specifically for openwrt, which can be found under https://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/sqm and there is a companion Text about the uci variables under https://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/uci/sqm Please let us know if there are any questions left or if the results are less than satisfactory ;)...

Best Regards
        Sebastian


>
>-- 
>Alec Robertson
>
>On 29 April 2016 at 3:58:55 pm, Dave Taht (dave.taht@gmail.com) wrote:
>
>I am using this build. one thing that failed twice recently was the  
>dnscrypt stuff (for no reason I can discern). I ended up disabling it  
>this morning.  
>
>On Sun, Apr 24, 2016 at 3:37 AM, Arie <nospam@ariekanarie.nl> wrote:  
>> If you want a very recent cake version, you could use my build from
>here:  
>> http://ariekanarie.nl/openwrt/mvebu/ It's based on the very feature
>heavy  
>> OpenWRT build by trondah (
>https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914  
>> ), but using more recent cerowrt and cake stuff.  
>>  
>> You'll want to flash the shelby factory.img if still on stock
>firmware, else  
>> shelby sysupgrade.tar.  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> On 24 April 2016 at 00:22, Alec Robertson <alecrobertson13@gmail.com>
>wrote:  
>>>  
>>> Dear All,  
>>>  
>>> I’ve realised that I have been responding to Kevin rather than to
>the  
>>> mailing list - my bad!  
>>>  
>>> I think I will purchase a Linksys WRT1900ACS as it seems to be
>fairly well  
>>> regarded and is easily accessible in the UK.  
>>>  
>>> How do I go about setting up Cake on it?  
>>>  
>>> --  
>>> Alec Robertson  
>>>  
>>> On 23 April 2016 at 9:00:52 pm, Alec Robertson
>(alecrobertson13@gmail.com)  
>>> wrote:  
>>>  
>>> Dear Kevin,  
>>>  
>>> I did look at the Linksys WRT1200AC but it seems to get some rather
>poor  
>>> reviews on Amazon?  
>>>  
>>> --  
>>> Alec Robertson  
>>>  
>>> On 23 April 2016 at 8:58:02 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant  
>>> (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> On 23/04/2016 20:42, Alec Robertson wrote:  
>>>  
>>> Dear Kevin,  
>>>  
>>> That’s very useful thanks.  
>>>  
>>> You say the TP-LINK Archer C7 should just be okay. What could I get
>that I  
>>> know will last me for a long time? What’s got good WiFi range too?  
>>>  
>>> The honest answer is I've absolutely no idea and I'm in that dilemma
> 
>>> myself. There's a remake of the linksys WRT range (WRT1200????) that
> 
>>> apparently is very powerful, I guess the issue is how far along
>OpenWrt is.  
>>> I might have the wrong end of hte stick but I think Dave Taht may
>have  
>>> something working.  
>>>  
>>> Apologies, I'm not really a mine of information.  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> I’m using powerline at the moment but fed up with it disconnecting.
>I  
>>> think it is probably the TP-LINK adaptors I am using (known issue  
>>> apparently) but wiring up the house is unpractical at the moment. I
>don’t  
>>> think there is a better solution really.  
>>>  
>>> --  
>>> Alec Robertson  
>>>  
>>> On 23 April 2016 at 8:00:00 pm, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant  
>>> (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk) wrote:  
>>>  
>>> Hi Alec,  
>>>  
>>> I'm not familiar with TalkTalk but they sound like they do similar  
>>> things to Sky - Sky just need a 'login ID' as part of the DHCP
>request  
>>> packet (which funnily enough are the PPPoA/E login details)  
>>>  
>>> In terms of speed sacrifice, erm, none really. I've set 40mpbs
>incoming  
>>> and 9990kbps for outgoing on a 40000/9999 link as reported by the  
>>> modem. Probably critically I've set the packet overheads to 12, and
>I  
>>> now can't remember why... there's an on-wire vlan tag (4 bytes) but
>the  
>>> reason for the other 8 have fallen out of the brain cell.  
>>>  
>>> I've a semi-regular backup job overnight that on a bad day overruns
>into  
>>> the day - a week or so ago it ran for something like 2 days and I
>had  
>>> absolutely no idea - thinkbroadband's ping monitor was registering  
>>> something like an extra 5mS latency over the baseline, peaks were  
>>> something like 25mS - backup stats and openwrt's stats package were 
>
>>> registering the full 10mbps uplink in use during that time.  
>>>  
>>> Does that help?  
>>>  
>>> Kevin  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> On 23/04/16 19:40, Alec Robertson wrote:  
>>> > Dear Kevin,  
>>> >  
>>> > I am on TalkTalk which uses IPoE, so no PPPoE use at all, as far
>as I  
>>> > know. I certainly haven’t ever configured login details.  
>>> >  
>>> > How much speed do you have to sacrifice on your connection to  
>>> > eliminate bufferbloat?  
>>> >  
>>> > --  
>>> > Alec Robertson  
>>> >  
>>> > On 23 April 2016 at 10:46:35 am, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant  
>>> > (kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk
><mailto:kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk>)  
>>>  
>>> > wrote:  
>>> >  
>>> >> Hi Alec,  
>>> >>  
>>> >> A brief appearance from me whilst I have a spare few seconds.  
>>> >>  
>>> >> Not stupid!  
>>> >>  
>>> >> There’s an obvious question: Why are Billion still shipping
>buffer  
>>> >> bloated devices? Have they been sent graphs/demos/logs of how
>their  
>>> >> kit is faulty?  
>>> >>  
>>> >> To offer some hopefully constructive pointers: For FTTC service
>I’m  
>>> >> guessing you’ll be using the Billion as a vdsl modem. Who’s the
>ISP?  
>>> >> AFAIK anyone other than Sky will need to run PPPoE and hence hit
>the  
>>> >> 1492 MTU restriction *unless* the Billion supports mini jumbo
>frames  
>>> >> on the ethernet side and the PPPoE MTU extension (the rfc number 
>
>>> >> escapes the brain at the moment) Sky don’t use PPP and just run  
>>> >> ethernet frames over PTM…..the way it should be. The incoming  
>>> >> packets from ISP to you are policed at something close to sync
>rate,  
>>> >> this is part of the BT specification. The uplink of course can be
>as  
>>> >> bloated as hell ;-)  
>>> >>  
>>> >> I use an Archer C7 with BT’s equally horrendously bloated HG612
>vdsl  
>>> >> modem on a 40/10 link with sky as my isp. In terms of CPU usage
>it’s  
>>> >> about 1% per megabit so a full 40/10 uses around 55% cpu, I think
> 
>>> >> there’s enough for your 60/20…just.  
>>> >>
>https://middling.me.uk/blog/2015/03/customising-openwrt-to-my-needs/  
>>> >> offers further advice which I found useful.  
>>> >>  
>>> >> Kevin  
>>> >>  
>>> >>  
>>> >>  
>>> >>  
>>> >>> On 22 Apr 2016, at 23:01, Alec Robertson
><alecrobertson13@gmail.com  
>>> >>> <mailto:alecrobertson13@gmail.com>> wrote:  
>>> >>>  
>>> >>> Hi all,  
>>> >>>  
>>> >>> I’ve been out of the bufferbloat game for a while and want to
>try  
>>> >>> and beat it once again.  
>>> >>>  
>>> >>> I’ve got an FTTC connection (UK) which I get around 60Mbps on
>but  
>>> >>> with horrible bufferbloat on my Billion 8800NL. What router
>should I  
>>> >>> get that can run OpenWRT and handle this connection? Do the
>newest  
>>> >>> builds of OpenWRT have cake built-in now via sqm-scripts or
>would I  
>>> >>> need to install this manually. If so, how would I do this?  
>>> >>>  
>>> >>> Would appreciate any help and apologies if I come off in any way
> 
>>> >>> stupid.  
>>> >>>  
>>> >>> --  
>>> >>> Alec Robertson  
>>> >>> _______________________________________________  
>>> >>> Cake mailing list  
>>> >>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>  
>>> >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake  
>>> >>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> ________________________________  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> --  
>>> Thanks,  
>>>  
>>> Kevin@Darbyshire-Bryant.me.uk  
>>> M: +44 7947 355344 H: +44 1256 478597  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> _______________________________________________  
>>> Cake mailing list  
>>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net  
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake  
>>>  
>>  
>>  
>> _______________________________________________  
>> Cake mailing list  
>> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net  
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake  
>>  
>
>
>
>--  
>Dave Täht  
>Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!  
>http://blog.cerowrt.org  
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>Cake mailing list
>Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
>https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake

-- 
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Alec Robertson]

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Dear All,

I know this isn’t directly related to bufferbloat but you all seem to be
experts on OpenWRT so I thought I’d ask my question here anyway.

I’ve installed the OpenWRT build from here -
https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914 - and it’s working well
except for the fact that I can’t seem to set custom DNS servers on the
clients. Or rather I can set them but the router seems to overrride them.
How can I disable this? Is this special to this build or does OpenWRT
always do this?

—
Alec Robertson.
<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914>
<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914>
<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914>
<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914>
<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914>
<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914>
<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914>
<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914>
<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914>
<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914>
<https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914>

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Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant]

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Hi Alec,

I don't use that build, I roll my own so I don't know if there's
anything particularly clever with it.  However:  I assume your clients
are getting IPs via DHCP.  The DHCP server on Openwrt is the truly
wonderful dnsmasq.  By default, dnsmasq advertises itself as the local
dns server....that way it can act as a bit of a cache for dns requests
AND resolve internally handled DHCP addresses for you.  Dnsmasq will
also do DNSSEC validation on your clients behalf too.

If you really want to hand out dns server address 'direct' to your
clients and avoid all the caching/resolving goodness of dnsmasq then
take a look at
http://www.thekelleys.org.uk/dnsmasq/docs/dnsmasq-man.html and the
'--dhcp-option' defaults.  They can be overridden, indeed you can
specify 'dhcp-options' via the luci gui (network-interfaces-lan-dhcp
server->advanced settings'

Hopefully that helps.

Kevin

On 01/05/16 19:23, Alec Robertson wrote:
> Dear All,
>
> I know this isn’t directly related to bufferbloat but you all seem to
> be experts on OpenWRT so I thought I’d ask my question here anyway.
>
> I’ve installed the OpenWRT build from here
> - https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914 - and it’s working
> well except for the fact that I can’t seem to set custom DNS servers
> on the clients. Or rather I can set them but the router seems to
> overrride them. How can I disable this? Is this special to this build
> or does OpenWRT always do this?
>
> —
> Alec Robertson.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake



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Re: [Cake] Beating bufferbloat

[Alec Robertson]

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Dear All,

I've figured out what's causing it: DNSCrypt! How do I get rid of this!

--
Alec Robertson

On 1 May 2016 at 22:30, Kevin Darbyshire-Bryant <
kevin@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> wrote:

> Hi Alec,
>
> I don't use that build, I roll my own so I don't know if there's
> anything particularly clever with it.  However:  I assume your clients
> are getting IPs via DHCP.  The DHCP server on Openwrt is the truly
> wonderful dnsmasq.  By default, dnsmasq advertises itself as the local
> dns server....that way it can act as a bit of a cache for dns requests
> AND resolve internally handled DHCP addresses for you.  Dnsmasq will
> also do DNSSEC validation on your clients behalf too.
>
> If you really want to hand out dns server address 'direct' to your
> clients and avoid all the caching/resolving goodness of dnsmasq then
> take a look at
> http://www.thekelleys.org.uk/dnsmasq/docs/dnsmasq-man.html and the
> '--dhcp-option' defaults.  They can be overridden, indeed you can
> specify 'dhcp-options' via the luci gui (network-interfaces-lan-dhcp
> server->advanced settings'
>
> Hopefully that helps.
>
> Kevin
>
> On 01/05/16 19:23, Alec Robertson wrote:
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I know this isn’t directly related to bufferbloat but you all seem to
> > be experts on OpenWRT so I thought I’d ask my question here anyway.
> >
> > I’ve installed the OpenWRT build from here
> > - https://forum.openwrt.org/viewtopic.php?id=50914 - and it’s working
> > well except for the fact that I can’t seem to set custom DNS servers
> > on the clients. Or rather I can set them but the router seems to
> > overrride them. How can I disable this? Is this special to this build
> > or does OpenWRT always do this?
> >
> > —
> > Alec Robertson.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cake mailing list
> > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake
>
>

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