From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ed1-x532.google.com (mail-ed1-x532.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::532]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B18423B2A4 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2025 14:44:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-ed1-x532.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5e66407963fso2586030a12.2 for ; Thu, 27 Mar 2025 11:44:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1743101074; x=1743705874; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Lp3SP+WvxviH0lmvloMWKejcnMw0h53C3tYyFYn53Tg=; b=cX9OEqGtedDRP6gsVYvPQ16W9vbqoGTPhhPSoq5wTmGQ7iEmMd+Lhe4dPfbOS9dRRn ajf3LVgYlNgZ+eAJxhGBgzJ+3RmRSyUVZp5aZWHmb32HT3oJvB9KEWAWAYbl3N2AjOAL E8pRubGdUcspCWFJQ964AfzXGZ1Qv2eejHahoJR6UJoC9/2SlykBTudbbZmu0HDR2OGm zwum4WN7ngIcjMNS7A9pVv2ciF8DBpv/d0TH/Vlz+W1txXO1BaQty7XBG6NhEBOnX2uE 6lXQQIAFz01Nvvh95dt2EVDFy8dDT16RC0fOeeuMOXt1hRSri3yQrhRRMixoE3pmOKaa j07Q== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1743101074; x=1743705874; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=Lp3SP+WvxviH0lmvloMWKejcnMw0h53C3tYyFYn53Tg=; b=RlXRqUtJX4srFP7/iAqMdj6fxSutI31MUH9FIr2VnYToFhyCHKRsiZ49I5h70vyJeL fFkFxUJdTnSL+4jw0txvpmuaPoFqIdG0iG2q+NdOsWTxVdoqT7z69jMZMLDg5yumqrNy hWomg/BYr/7h7aq10Jjp3XHlYhEE9ZCqccW9i4ZqPqq9Srpcn1zDz0013NZRnIT3HNKF SHKlilb1Ptx//itkkVyT8LVnKlOl+xKJRKYxHp5MQ2Lfk+CVDJQm425cadA/u/irvN67 93CdiMyMXtik3Q2Yd0L+1JQZp4J1OGIirhWh6r+i8g/KXdFjECxhlK0Cnp5JTcFwf2DH 5jng== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWdl0wEMhzDgwLYDlRaLclIt21zA24Ok9wayG6dypihfmSH/HSbQVqmj32AWoUz+4uZk0eu@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yz7hiJfRLiOjBFl3yh7h86Wyh9lj2+0B38DzoIwfCL8SvBvYJWo qlEkrH2apTzu8PxPjzNbI6eH3I1LzD90lRv1hJ0peoMrXag8ESWKGwnKWTx7+Qvv8oaeuCaVzEu SwBP8GRNB51xY6GxOXsIgYNDGtoo= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctM1LSGX/rm6tew+zt5YJ5k57NN+oyEIxOwrhPY3ty7NVoO6wMZvg2Bypc/RC3 ZCZljZa5oftewRcGyRQHPkIUfCbWAaZj77DLOUiTI4rVg4LxUAB0ncKnZ6KcyfxAhfvtfSRb8aR WktAI5J4sVborcxzpWTLRmND4KsT8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHGvD2lWe0jEMMe9Mv0RYaESoyQZVHQEpPeuSPvgSW/B0x8zcVznxYoOS60KVX808ySomZQqhPAWH7wzwdyiQ0= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3fa3:b0:ac3:17b6:737 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-ac6fb18d6bfmr460239466b.45.1743101074272; Thu, 27 Mar 2025 11:44:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7FBEC0CA-162E-48A2-81D6-97CDD2F63EEC@gmail.com> <8756E062-0FC3-4301-8884-B1BCA7A124B5@jeffhansen.com> In-Reply-To: From: Frantisek Borsik Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2025 19:45:54 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AQ5f1JoV9YSqAUTNlDgCM_gDnRp8aEDrVbt0LEAwKb7M7QjuKs8XJa_RgVa--6M Message-ID: To: Daryll Swer Cc: Jeff Hansen , Jonathan Morton , jordan@inacomptc.com, Cake List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000056fe370631575820" Subject: Re: [Cake] CAKE is going to be deployed on Alta Labs any day now! X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2025 18:44:35 -0000 --00000000000056fe370631575820 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alta Labs just published a video explaining their CAKE implementation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DvxDO0flKcI0 All the best, Frank Frantisek (Frank) Borsik https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 Skype: casioa5302ca frantisek.borsik@gmail.com On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 4:39=E2=80=AFPM Daryll Swer wrote: > I was looking at your Route10 product, but it looks to be consumer-heavy, > at this point time. I run stuff like BGP in my home network (as I have > MPLS-to-the-home delivery) and PIM-SM, would be cool if you folks support= ed > some DC-fabric features on Route10 in the future with FRR as the daemon o= r > something. > > One thing I'd like to mention, Route10 should have a good NAT > implementation to support EIM-NAT for TCP/UDP to allow P2P networking to > work over a NAT box. > Additionally, support NAT Hairpinning for user's LAN subnets to allow > intra-NAT traffic to work over STUN discovery, this eliminates TURN traff= ic. > Small to large-scale CGNAT deployments around the globe is something I've > been consulting for a few years now. I'm happy to potentially beta test > your products, if you'd like, for best practices conformance with very > specific RFCs. > > BQL would be good to have for long-term viewpoint, perhaps your Ethernet > driver provider, could patch it up for BQL support and that would be a go= od > foundation for FQ_Codel on your Route10. MikroTik has FQ_Codel, but lacks > BQL, and they refused to listen to Fran and Dave Taht, so perhaps you fol= ks > are our only hope :) > > *--* > Best Regards > Daryll Swer > Website: daryllswer.com > > > > On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 at 20:53, Jeff Hansen wrote: > >> Frank, >> >> The hardware that Route10 is based off of doesn=E2=80=99t support FQ Cod= el nor >> CAKE at all, so everything is done in software on our 5.4 Linux kernel. = It >> works great, though. In some instances it=E2=80=99s the only way to max = out a PPPoE >> connection and have optimal latency. >> >> It doesn=E2=80=99t look like our ethernet driver supports BQL at all, so= we >> haven=E2=80=99t tried that yet, but as is, it absolutely eliminates high= latency if >> tuned properly. >> >> -Jeff >> >> On Mar 21, 2025, at 2:27=E2=80=AFAM, Frantisek Borsik >> wrote: >> >> Happy to see that! Thanks, guys. >> >> Adding Jeff >> , >> Alta Labs CTO - Darryl >> >> has a suggestion how to push this further: "Maybe they can add both >> FQ_CoDel and CAKE with BQL support? How's hardware-offloading of FQ_CoDe= l >> looking on these =E2=80=9Cprosumer=E2=80=9D equipment these days? I have= n't kept up over a >> year on this topic." >> >> All the best, >> >> Frank >> >> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik >> >> >> >> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik >> >> >> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 >> >> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 >> >> Skype: casioa5302ca >> >> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 21, 2025 at 3:44=E2=80=AFAM Jonathan Morton >> wrote: >> >>> > On 19 Mar, 2025, at 12:01 am, Frantisek Borsik via Cake < >>> cake@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: >>> > >>> > Should be pushed through production in day or two and they will be >>> talking about it on https://streamyard.com/watch/ubYm2AffWkYi >>> >>> this Wednesday, March 19, at 1PM EST / 12PM CST / 11AM MST / 10AM PST >>> >>> I joined the stream, and was able to ask about the throughput they were >>> getting with CAKE on their hardware. This is just for the "Route 10" >>> rather than their APs, and they reported getting about 2.5Gbps throughp= ut >>> with CAKE enabled. They do correctly note that the hardware-accelerated >>> forwarding path is disabled for the interface where CAKE is turned on. >>> >>> Supporting 2.5Gbps is pretty good I think, and should be sufficient to >>> handle all practical Internet subscriptions that are likely to require >>> bufferbloat mitigation. For comparison, on the same call they claimed >>> about 800Mbps throughput for acting as a WireGuard tunnel endpoint. >>> >>> - Jonathan Morton >> >> >> --00000000000056fe370631575820 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alta Labs just published a video explaining their CAK= E implementation:=C2=A0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DvxDO0flKcI0

All the best,

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik=

=C2=A0<= u>

https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik=

Signal, Telegr= am, WhatsApp: +421919416714=C2=A0

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885<= /p>

Skype: casioa5302ca=

frantisek.borsik@gmail.com

<= /div>


On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 4:39=E2=80=AFPM Daryll Swer <contact@daryllswer.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);pa= dding-left:1ex">
I was looking at you= r Route10 product, but it looks to be consumer-heavy, at this point time. I= run stuff like BGP in my home network (as I have MPLS-to-the-home delivery= ) and PIM-SM, would be cool if you folks supported some DC-fabric features = on Route10 in the future with FRR as the daemon or something.
One thing I'd like to mention, Route10 should have a good N= AT implementation to support EIM-NAT for TCP/UDP to allow P2P networking to= work over a NAT box.
Additionally, support NAT Hairpinning for user'= ;s LAN subnets to allow intra-NAT traffic to work over STUN discovery, this= eliminates TURN traffic.
Small to large-scale CGNAT deployments = around the globe is something I've been consulting for a few years now.= I'm happy to potentially beta test your products, if you'd like, f= or best practices conformance with very specific RFCs.

=
BQL would be good to have for long-term viewpoint, perhaps your Ethern= et driver provider, could patch it up for BQL support and that would be a g= ood foundation for FQ_Codel on your Route10. MikroTik has FQ_Codel, but lac= ks BQL, and they refused to listen to Fran and Dave Taht, so perhaps you fo= lks are our only hope :)

= --
Best Regards
Daryll Swer


=3D""
On Mon, 24 Mar 2025 at 20:53, Je= ff Hansen <x@jeffh= ansen.com> wrote:
Frank,

The hardware that Route10 is based off of doesn=E2=80=99t support = FQ Codel nor CAKE at all, so everything is done in software on our 5.4 Linu= x kernel. It works great, though. In some instances it=E2=80=99s the only w= ay to max out a PPPoE connection and have optimal latency.

It doesn=E2=80=99t look like our ethernet driver supports BQL at a= ll, so we haven=E2=80=99t tried that yet, but as is, it absolutely eliminat= es high latency if tuned properly.

-Jeff
<= div>
On Mar 21, 2025, at 2:27=E2=80=AFAM,= Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.borsik@gmail.com> wrote:

Happy to see that! Thanks, guys.

Ad= ding Jeff, = Alta Labs CTO - Darryl has a suggestion how to push this further: "Maybe they = can add both FQ_CoDel and CAKE with BQL support? How's hardware-offload= ing of FQ_CoDel looking on these =E2=80=9Cprosumer=E2=80=9D equipment these= days? I haven't kept up over a year on this topic."
=
All the best,
=

Fr= ank

<= u>

Frant= isek (Frank) Borsik

=C2=A0

https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik

Signal= , Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714=C2=A0

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885=

Skype: casi= oa5302ca

frantisek.borsik@gmail.com



=
On Fri, Ma= r 21, 2025 at 3:44=E2=80=AFAM Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com> wrote:
<= /div>
> On 19 Mar, 2025, at 12:01 am, Frantisek Borsik v= ia Cake <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> Should be pushed through production in day or two and they will be tal= king about it on https://streamyard.com/watch/ubYm2AffWkYi this Wednesday,= =C2=A0 March 19, at 1PM EST / 12PM CST / 11AM MST / 10AM PST

I joined the stream, and was able to ask about the throughput they were get= ting with CAKE on their hardware.=C2=A0 This is just for the "Route 10= " rather than their APs, and they reported getting about 2.5Gbps throu= ghput with CAKE enabled. They do correctly note that the hardware-accelerat= ed forwarding path is disabled for the interface where CAKE is turned on.
Supporting 2.5Gbps is pretty good I think, and should be sufficient to hand= le all practical Internet subscriptions that are likely to require bufferbl= oat mitigation.=C2=A0 For comparison, on the same call they claimed about 8= 00Mbps throughput for acting as a WireGuard tunnel endpoint.

=C2=A0- Jonathan Morton

--00000000000056fe370631575820--