From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-yk0-x22f.google.com (mail-yk0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c07::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D48AE21FD72 for ; Mon, 7 Sep 2015 12:43:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by ykei199 with SMTP id i199so89881560yke.0 for ; Mon, 07 Sep 2015 12:43:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=Xb92S3GF9RQ+X0lkv/+g81CdzRu7HM/J4zgSiRXYcQU=; b=w1ANGNxGryH26qYhtSxk8sezmG74mUBVEHcwPb5M0LtU91KHrKKA878sm/DQmZe+lZ 9rzMJb34KEdUcILYUVdPuxdRBzFU+s3vpPDXPt/yX//LxWbYxo6sa7zpJlXaTPkBrBp+ 5/cAT3xoKwXWwgJrumRv2YmzA6Hbgq1MmjWCv3lgmnC+jHVpJWo+G4GxKDOcNmqCLHNO 67M9WbkWgXpoYGTIBkQ+iT4xliy40EyUiv2ufjy8I2GAhKvRBX1QSNkM8U/FpGH58h/T FQST0e8vjCkqTh77YmAvYYEG8TcmZQCCSv8kh03v4Au5yXzb3oi5jO6JSfoMRfuNflSA g5ag== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.129.46.140 with SMTP id u134mr22286174ywu.91.1441654987720; Mon, 07 Sep 2015 12:43:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.13.236.80 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Sep 2015 12:43:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 14:43:07 -0500 Message-ID: From: Benjamin Cronce To: Sebastian Moeller Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a114089e46e95eb051f2d7568 Cc: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net, Felix Fietkau Subject: Re: [Cake] cake work needed for openwrt merge X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Sep 2015 19:43:31 -0000 --001a114089e46e95eb051f2d7568 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you're only concerned about the magnitude, fixed-line based Internet connections only have two magnitudes. Local(10ms) and world-wide(100ms). My break down goes like this for datacenters from my home connection. 10ms Chicago 30ms New York City and Washington DC 45ms Houston and Miami 60ms San Jose and San Francisco 70ms LA, San Diego, and Seattle 90ms London and Paris 115ms Hawaii 120ms Frankfurt and Switzerland 150ms Japan 170ms Moscow 190ms New Zealand 210ms Sao Paulo(Brazil) 215ms Sydney 220ms Hong Kong and Dubai(United Arab Emirates) 250ms Singapore, China, India, Cape Town(South Africa) As you can tell, terrestrial latency doesn't have many flavors except when congestion or horrible routing is involved. In my case, my 95th percentile of high RTTs is around 20ms because of CDNs and my 80th is closer to 10ms. Similar with video games, except Eve Online which is hosted in London. In my case, a 100ms RTT is from Hawaii to Europe. If you're only concerned about magnitudes, then only need a few options like fixed-line terrestrial mode and satellite mode for your main options. If I was to choose a custom interval/RTT for myself without doing a proper measurement, probably 40ms, assuming that gives any benefit over the default 100ms On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Sebastian Moeller wrote: > Hi Dave, > > On Sep 7, 2015, at 12:45 , Dave Taht wrote: > > > ** expose the interval parameter for longer rtts. > > > > In fact, I think using the word "rtt" might be saner than "interval=E2= =80=9D. > > Not sure, RTT will make a lot of people nervous about this being > basically a run-time constant while actual RTTs of the flows range from a > few ms to several 100s. To not confuse these people we would need somethi= ng > like =E2=80=9Ctypical average/median RTT=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Clongest rea= listic RTT=E2=80=9D or even > =E2=80=9Ccenter of realistic RTT range=E2=80=9D that conveys that this is= more about order > of magnitude than any real RTT. It could also be that people in general a= re > much better about this and I just got a specific subset in the crowd I tr= y > to help getting sqm-scripts up and running ;) > > > Best Regards > Sebastian > > > We could also add shortcuts like LEO, GEO, GTO, L1-L5, MOON, MARS. :) > > > > > > On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Dave Taht wrote: > >> In discussing with felix what is needed for cake to go into openwrt > >> trunk, we came up with the following list: > >> > >> * Cake work needed > >> ** Add squash option (besteffort + squashing diffserv) > >> ** Fix diffserv > >> ** Add man page > >> ** Clean up patches to only do cake > >> *** Reformat for kernel_style > >> *** IProute patches for mainline iproute > >> ** Submit as a single patch to openwrt for each > >> ** cake patches goes into the openwrt iproute directly > >> ** continues to be built externally as kmod-sched-cake > >> ** Needs update to the new kernel hashing api > >> ** Openwrt is stablizing for now, on linux 4.1 > >> ** CC is essentially done, but there will a CC.1 release at some point > >> ** Add better statistics (like active_flows) - have part of this alrea= dy > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Dave T=C3=A4ht > >> endo is a terrible disease: http://www.gofundme.com/SummerVsEndo > > > > > > > > -- > > Dave T=C3=A4ht > > endo is a terrible disease: http://www.gofundme.com/SummerVsEndo > > _______________________________________________ > > Cake mailing list > > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake > > _______________________________________________ > Cake mailing list > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake > --001a114089e46e95eb051f2d7568 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you're only concerned about the magnitude, fixed-li= ne based Internet connections only have two magnitudes. Local(10ms) and wor= ld-wide(100ms). My break down goes like this for datacenters from my home c= onnection.
10ms Chicago
30ms New York City and Washington DC
<= div>45ms Houston and Miami
60ms San Jose and San Francisco
<= div>70ms LA, San Diego, and Seattle
90ms London and Paris
115ms Hawaii
120ms Frankfurt and Switzerland
150ms J= apan
170ms Moscow
190ms New Zealand
210ms Sao= Paulo(Brazil)
215ms Sydney
220ms Hong Kong and=C2=A0Du= bai(United Arab Emirates)
250ms Singapore, China, India, Cape Tow= n(South Africa)

As you can tell, terrestrial laten= cy doesn't have many flavors except when congestion or horrible routing= is involved. In my case, my 95th percentile of high RTTs is around 20ms be= cause of CDNs and my 80th is closer to 10ms. Similar with video games, exce= pt Eve Online which is hosted in London. In my case, a 100ms RTT is from Ha= waii to Europe.

If you're only concerned about= magnitudes, then only need a few options like fixed-line terrestrial mode = and satellite mode for your main options. If I was to choose a =C2=A0custom= interval/RTT for myself without doing a proper measurement, probably 40ms,= assuming that gives any benefit over the default 100ms

On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 6:2= 1 AM, Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> wrote:
Hi Dave,

On Sep 7, 2015, at 12:45 , Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:

> ** expose the interval parameter for longer rtts.
>
> In fact, I think using the word "rtt" might be saner than &q= uot;interval=E2=80=9D.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Not sure, RTT will make a lot of people = nervous about this being basically a run-time constant while actual RTTs of= the flows range from a few ms to several 100s. To not confuse these people= we would need something like =E2=80=9Ctypical average/median RTT=E2=80=9D = or =E2=80=9Clongest realistic RTT=E2=80=9D or even =E2=80=9Ccenter of reali= stic RTT range=E2=80=9D that conveys that this is more about order of magni= tude than any real RTT. It could also be that people in general are much be= tter about this and I just got a specific subset in the crowd I try to help= getting sqm-scripts up and running ;)


Best Regards
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Sebast= ian

> We could also add shortcuts like LEO, GEO, GTO, L1-L5, MOON, MARS. :)<= br> >
>
> On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In discussing with felix what is needed for cake to go into openwr= t
>> trunk, we came up with the following list:
>>
>> * Cake work needed
>> ** Add squash option (besteffort + squashing diffserv)
>> ** Fix diffserv
>> ** Add man page
>> ** Clean up patches to only do cake
>> *** Reformat for kernel_style
>> *** IProute patches for mainline iproute
>> ** Submit as a single patch to openwrt for each
>> ** cake patches goes into the openwrt iproute directly
>> ** continues to be built externally as kmod-sched-cake
>> ** Needs update to the new kernel hashing api
>> ** Openwrt is stablizing for now, on linux 4.1
>> ** CC is essentially done, but there will a CC.1 release at some p= oint
>> ** Add better statistics (like active_flows) - have part of this a= lready
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave T=C3=A4ht
>> endo is a terrible disease: http://www.gofundme.com/Sum= merVsEndo
>
>
>
> --
> Dave T=C3=A4ht
> endo is a terrible disease: http://www.gofundme.com/SummerV= sEndo
> _______________________________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.n= et
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake

_______________________________________________
Cake mailing list
Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake

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