From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x22b.google.com (mail-lf0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::22b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B6EE3B2A3 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 18:33:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x22b.google.com with SMTP id c80so98435665lfh.3 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:33:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=87tgza+uT8DBQ4gPI+YkoIqAvS6x8rF29NkgUAl7xyg=; b=Op6v5ncMleDiHKtT2pooPzvsuuDEjIvXz47duKbTu5FjBqd5dd8IqdFu0g+nqp8V8E /9ooIkbPvurzQQ/+FcZsd8F+fg/qNJHGrE1vmK4gutDuUqZUPAcvySmsj7gTXRLFvHVk tf8D66zT24wZy9xeCB/tIt6f3hnh72IIqjx+thBWJ1b70mBPP66UDc86xl7C/yVZ1HZO EmXFHuLtR22cmK4N2RQH9EKjmzunJdvmmV/irPAHBujemi71YphxEKi8AiVrww+uelwi 8JeuvzSatK24KUHcYm9iY527sYGJZ+li6yIVjWFPqSFl9t1V91RNqcWqCHu07cXYCE6m hTzA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=87tgza+uT8DBQ4gPI+YkoIqAvS6x8rF29NkgUAl7xyg=; b=t3E4P4mgDjLcYIC2ZfC+zK3MfcpobhMoF1tTIBxnIzsU523+f4ePIkvt3oWETBKHB0 umbM9ccoNT5SBSe2emMXxWQd/iRa2awQdgXl2NUlvhmf3US3BPiLTMfiTTziM3BQDDI9 4WVET5i9UkQNkRWJo/8l2KEHOP+NbEIlKFwzZJytoPZWu075E69ZstEUNpEziPxfNMRR +iKLGsVIJnaGTEwVzRTJyP0uqkuOWY+oeRJ7dcLrTMxIENhWbV+J5evPRonicNxM7lgq gbiBjjQ/Ypp4hXjcPywG+l4dVKsX+6rAzfR660g/pUwYWqZSR4dgBXs01X19oNC1AxhI /F6Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/6KXP9pNYZgL6iHcGSld1WFh0OYo1JTFAc361enH/gJEtGCxIFj D9Yb/JiPHpR9Czz4mHzTq46aTkxSRw== X-Received: by 10.25.92.193 with SMTP id u62mr11626393lfi.69.1493159619275; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:33:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.25.23.211 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 15:33:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <05C0B0C7-4337-4115-AC6B-DA81392FCB34@gmail.com> <22E633CF-5EE0-4B0F-89A8-B790E730FB6C@gmx.de> <0BA3EE91-C5BC-4155-9D5D-D15D34490A1A@gmx.de> <00DDAA0B-7D99-489B-BA2D-1F20289409B3@gmx.de> <2FFBF256-2932-4FC7-AD1F-0D7CEE111809@gmx.de> <3fbfd0ee-7b41-0f83-8b44-ce7eed6a0562@gmail.com> <09DB0D8E-F63C-4126-8608-9EACDE99D2F1@gmail.com> From: Benjamin Cronce Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 17:33:38 -0500 Message-ID: To: Dendari Marini Cc: Jonathan Morton , cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c0ed088b33586054e055088 Subject: Re: [Cake] Getting Cake to work better with Steam and similar applications X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 22:33:40 -0000 --94eb2c0ed088b33586054e055088 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 What's your RTT(ping) to the different services, like Steam and Windows Update? Some ISPs have local CDNs that can give incredibly low latency relative to the provisioned bandwidth, which can cause bad things to happen with TCP. On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Dendari Marini wrote: > > On 25 April 2017 at 21:10, Jonathan Morton wrote: > >> >> You may see some improvement from wholesale reducing the inbound >> bandwidth, to say 10Mbit. This is especially true given the high asymmetry >> of your connection, which might require dropped acks upstream to keep >> filled downstream - and dropped acks will tend to increase burstiness of >> sending on unpaced senders. >> >> You should also try to ensure ECN is fully enabled on your LAN hosts, >> especially the ones running Steam. This will help to reduce >> retransmissions and loss-recovery cycles. >> >> - Jonathan Morton >> >> > Well, the only improvement I've seen when limiting the bandwidth with > Steam has been at lower than 1Mbps, don't think I want to go that far. In > all honesty I wouldn't limit it to 10Mbit either, with the overhead it > means half of my total bandwidth, not a trade-off I'm willing to do. > > Still, the issue is real and it seems Steam is the only application I can > reproduce it. I've seen reports about Battle.net and Windows Updates doing > the same thing (because they should open multiple concurrent connections), > but I can't reproduce it, at least not in the way Steam does. > > Anyway I'm gonna take a "pause" from all of this, I've wasted the last > three weeks ago just for trying resolving it but unfortunately still > nothing. Thanks all for your help, if there's any news I'll report it here. > > _______________________________________________ > Cake mailing list > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake > > --94eb2c0ed088b33586054e055088 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
What's your RTT(ping) to the different services, like = Steam and Windows Update? Some ISPs have local CDNs that can give incredibl= y low latency relative to the provisioned bandwidth, which can cause bad th= ings to happen with TCP.

On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 3:44 PM, Dendari Marini <dendari92@= gmail.com> wrote:

On 25 April 2017 at 21:10, Jonathan Morton <<= a href=3D"mailto:chromatix99@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">chromatix99@gmail= .com> wrote:

You may see some improvement from wholesale reducing the inbound bandwid= th, to say 10Mbit.=C2=A0 This is especially true given the high asymmetry o= f your connection, which might require dropped acks upstream to keep filled= downstream - and dropped acks will tend to increase burstiness of sending = on unpaced senders.

You should also try to ensure ECN is fully enabled on your LAN hosts, espec= ially the ones running Steam.=C2=A0 This will help to reduce retransmission= s and loss-recovery cycles.

=C2=A0- Jonathan Morton


Well, the only improvement I've seen when limiting the bandwidth with= Steam has been at lower than 1Mbps, don't think I want to go that far.= In all honesty I wouldn't limit it to 10Mbit either, with the overhead= it means half of my total bandwidth, not a trade-off I'm willing to do= .

Stil= l, the issue is real and it seems Steam is the only application I can repro= duce it. I've seen reports about Battle.net and Windows Updates doing t= he same thing (because they should open multiple concurrent connections), b= ut I can't reproduce it, at least not in the way Steam does.

Anyway I'm g= onna take a "pause" from all of this, I've wasted the last th= ree weeks ago just for trying resolving it but unfortunately still nothing.= Thanks all for your help, if there's any news I'll report it here.=

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