From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm0-x232.google.com (mail-wm0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 88B013B2A3 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 16:44:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x232.google.com with SMTP id u65so33119271wmu.1 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:44:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tghM1FN8hTWs6sD4d+RuGOBTNwnNS+XMk01qfUC0xzA=; b=Cm1hDIpmgFadE7eTsAXAD1/jzkulY1WDiFmsPK8Nt1w7nurtzEOZ5pApmk42yIaegq QHlHgo6cWjW9FI9zRaePeGB0gwH6UtyLww08NXtWNGpA69FN+hWisfvAFsV6k7g3Sz1d 5LKsvt90Fc/OBr2xViRCbxYbXY9cZM+moFRKp9G4zch/PeLhjH/QwN2jUbU9fHdhu4YT r3KkNHzdKfB7kL1uicqU1GHtkl83npmcMl3UjNfaLyXqOXrk0Y6jrThYm60Z4DXntfM3 EkPHEysA7DjTO5dsIzzJkqlghfzoBm/EBChe019v81ldg2O5JPCHjiEwKaU+w6y1kNPb 7cCA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tghM1FN8hTWs6sD4d+RuGOBTNwnNS+XMk01qfUC0xzA=; b=LeWnN4WlMSeUZW993ZzN7wFIMHZlrMWFyuR35IFlT5Ldzu4iLd1hpkaiY9VvlcuQmQ KUuRHtCKxLTjY8FFG/JHWKkTQsFxJLxyCVigvIoND1GG0C0xmIx8QQ0wS3iYIy69CWpt ahtaGoxjyxYWsK0kcD98RlFMY9lmy3yItbl2H7NxWgIDXjk3HNuwjn25OYn4u+OVicUZ c4hEzwXS99AczDsw2FHx0GaSI4PefdWz+JOAPlWto6ewhr6uPVgFS81wsbvk2IYGLgmw bMv4rL7kxWz1JwOTFiJgfKetWN4GPPNlKxbVJU8g2dAJ1fFikmH0ugDQzbV4BwZMuCge 8tDw== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/5huCAGnGufFAVeBxJgKr6fXkc5a4cxJk7NKco7QVfKhMOKE+fi uC3m+4PUITsc/3qpMcImjxCBjTrzPw== X-Received: by 10.80.174.188 with SMTP id e57mr6636025edd.166.1493153096523; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:44:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.80.169.59 with HTTP; Tue, 25 Apr 2017 13:44:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <09DB0D8E-F63C-4126-8608-9EACDE99D2F1@gmail.com> References: <05C0B0C7-4337-4115-AC6B-DA81392FCB34@gmail.com> <22E633CF-5EE0-4B0F-89A8-B790E730FB6C@gmx.de> <0BA3EE91-C5BC-4155-9D5D-D15D34490A1A@gmx.de> <00DDAA0B-7D99-489B-BA2D-1F20289409B3@gmx.de> <2FFBF256-2932-4FC7-AD1F-0D7CEE111809@gmx.de> <3fbfd0ee-7b41-0f83-8b44-ce7eed6a0562@gmail.com> <09DB0D8E-F63C-4126-8608-9EACDE99D2F1@gmail.com> From: Dendari Marini Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 22:44:55 +0200 Message-ID: To: Jonathan Morton Cc: Andy Furniss , cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f403045c4578e9e6a5054e03cb75 Subject: Re: [Cake] Getting Cake to work better with Steam and similar applications X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2017 20:44:57 -0000 --f403045c4578e9e6a5054e03cb75 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On 25 April 2017 at 21:10, Jonathan Morton wrote: > > You may see some improvement from wholesale reducing the inbound > bandwidth, to say 10Mbit. This is especially true given the high asymmetry > of your connection, which might require dropped acks upstream to keep > filled downstream - and dropped acks will tend to increase burstiness of > sending on unpaced senders. > > You should also try to ensure ECN is fully enabled on your LAN hosts, > especially the ones running Steam. This will help to reduce > retransmissions and loss-recovery cycles. > > - Jonathan Morton > > Well, the only improvement I've seen when limiting the bandwidth with Steam has been at lower than 1Mbps, don't think I want to go that far. In all honesty I wouldn't limit it to 10Mbit either, with the overhead it means half of my total bandwidth, not a trade-off I'm willing to do. Still, the issue is real and it seems Steam is the only application I can reproduce it. I've seen reports about Battle.net and Windows Updates doing the same thing (because they should open multiple concurrent connections), but I can't reproduce it, at least not in the way Steam does. Anyway I'm gonna take a "pause" from all of this, I've wasted the last three weeks ago just for trying resolving it but unfortunately still nothing. Thanks all for your help, if there's any news I'll report it here. --f403045c4578e9e6a5054e03cb75 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On 25 April 2017 at 21:10, Jonathan Morton <chromatix99@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

You may see some improvement from wholesale reducing the inbound bandw= idth, to say 10Mbit.=C2=A0 This is especially true given the high asymmetry= of your connection, which might require dropped acks upstream to keep fill= ed downstream - and dropped acks will tend to increase burstiness of sendin= g on unpaced senders.

You should also try to ensure ECN is fully enabled on your LAN hosts, espec= ially the ones running Steam.=C2=A0 This will help to reduce retransmission= s and loss-recovery cycles.

=C2=A0- Jonathan Morton


Well,= the only improvement I've seen when limiting the bandwidth with Steam = has been at lower than 1Mbps, don't think I want to go that far. In all= honesty I wouldn't limit it to 10Mbit either, with the overhead it mea= ns half of my total bandwidth, not a trade-off I'm willing to do.
=

Still, the = issue is real and it seems Steam is the only application I can reproduce it= . I've seen reports about Battle.net and Windows Updates doing the same= thing (because they should open multiple concurrent connections), but I ca= n't reproduce it, at least not in the way Steam does.

Anyway I'm gonna = take a "pause" from all of this, I've wasted the last three w= eeks ago just for trying resolving it but unfortunately still nothing. Than= ks all for your help, if there's any news I'll report it here.
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