From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 694F13B29E; Thu, 14 Oct 2021 16:31:12 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1634243470; bh=oquFSMFm4/J7t7wLfcu2pvIDKT8HCEfCY2Cr3zqF3IY=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=bD/CYsJtVo6q4q7XbGKcZn8DBFcMRHdChv2o4dmVqh0ls9BRXFmCIiASHHeUneBDB wdI5cafbOiUNAp1va3ymf2HRIkqbnjIAlE4a0j2bijb+cHmL5spq6tvIVHHtlxWwax eT602/v4yT/A5ivUwZJRfwaugpIUK9M4kPgG/y6k= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [192.168.42.229] ([95.112.224.231]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx105 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1Mqs0X-1n64MR1rn7-00ms84; Thu, 14 Oct 2021 22:31:10 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 13.4 \(3608.120.23.2.7\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 22:31:09 +0200 Cc: Cake List , ECN-Sane Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3608.120.23.2.7) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:wZZUYILkQrRXmF1UyD6DTKwngHhCK1mjohFWS9TWsnlIFDig+a8 gQDn02G6g1PALA44uo/qynxS+QVQKuXEMTkKYV4JnxePHRGfV+IRlr13eQG5EFnQaQ65cwt kYV1+ymJmEpcx0/kjgwp+e8Iafu4BSlKoilKGlcVUROHG7zWrgmUIoO0kWx2L3rsLkeGo0j 97SKwpN9LYeQhSpaa/N1w== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:O7G+OMc/Leo=:2AzWbQ/4z53YpXrYrj2xky 1l8OxFXW7sJmCdzwZo0CsswoA+A0I9NrD3ifuiLQgb/+Fo5xRFytjRrnXw+Ygrr7oNSbWcvBR mDxFup39soRpzIN/Rj7CYsSqHd24o0vhljQxtIS1OZHZtCzKhkCBNktyAs3sqrO05BKGOXCxU RG2GaesqXuXiIindewegY5BQdvYqUEX/72tDZ5+Oqd/4i4QJ8RLXZiLrjhn0pHzz7lUuQleF+ 6UElJM/hYhOHx1wN4hjD8YXFAddjFYErZAnIcIm4Wd25EhGzlkZh98nEJRgCec3CCuBZOcUG5 cLyiSZ2I/UhjwyAJRyG3wq+DMGatgLxU/NFffwnawGkx3Kd+TQ5Cz28igVfAFuYy49F8ZBHF+ 6CVW2KzntqkGjjaHbm6YZ7FztwpDa5QzcaenB+t7khvkeklRBlSWDgMVOgSLnd4adYN9vTEoG zdN6GlIkxUm2ptZut/oNAaFok8aU1+o1zplpvNlfI5enyLBfQxnIv2KLct/mEzo+114IUmZ9k zTu21ek6wg8g/FJCiy/7Si0G7XfAt7MvxKC2kKeUev3AytBuHLnIoOphMplXlDiR9AFqBsyVI YJyX0zc6y22iIWZUd95kPoZvjX4lf5H38R9iwz1czfeBi9MEgJWAG7FBUcFs+x3yZxsz3L8Xx c+aQZnub59R7h7iQVHMH+KnCfbbnO6+NhoYGX3vB1ZEBqmZf0Cq+0CLDPa5SWLPSzyi8MXrH0 ZPh+efYhnASqidZJ9kDfG5fPXEKEzpC0o7EyvVDN+nzha8S6YvvLKLAgq5uKT+BYxGQ8Ms4wT IsKNt9fMuTwVjZmwU6ruyb9ddav9bX5B4SIQ+dBdufpRVb4BjRo4SYqIeClvlS3DpeuJZmC1E XEHj51k8bPynff5AULBvnXY9ta6oiNadKyGBPxLWPVHwq3LnL3Co1LuuSOdtjHUHbew5eWrEk 6+i0guCHpbFvx454Dubc6w7dww7hY1mJpA9dbb7lV73dtuLTVim1cyRoVP4qjJaC1qQ/rk9jB 6zJvl9WMp27wCHzGwPYylL16HWOkTp01Dr9anX+yY1gIqltrg4bOzIxjqq1Kwfx8W8Rr+j6Co iruUnMkttSANgs= Subject: Re: [Cake] l4s kernel submission X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2021 20:31:12 -0000 Which does not change the inconvenient fact that L4S does not work over = the open internet. But I bet that fq_codel with a shaper is going to be = hands down the better L4S AQM compared to DualQ... (thanks to its fq = nature it can forego the whole "coupling" heuristic mess and side-step = the whole massive unfairness issues, and keeping the known working codel = law for non-ECT(1) traffic also compared to dualq's burts intolerabt PIE = variant also seems like a step in the right direction). Then again it seems consequent given that the BBRv2 team seem to be = on-board the L4S train; to put a somewhat positive spin (lipstick?) on = this, I assume that the quality of the L4S engineering might improve...=20= Regards Sebastian P.S.: Witnessing the L4S drama in the IETF makes me appreciate how = comparatively clean and elegant sausages are made... > On Oct 14, 2021, at 22:06, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 > = https://lore.kernel.org/all/20211014175918.60188-3-eric.dumazet@gmail.com/= >=20 > --=20 > Fixing Starlink's Latencies: = https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dc9gLo6Xrwgw >=20 > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > _______________________________________________ > Cake mailing list > Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake