From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lf0-x235.google.com (mail-lf0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8B70E3B2A0 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 13:40:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x235.google.com with SMTP id w16so38835025lfd.2 for ; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 10:40:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=BBxQEzvVeByBFDk4R4BY5w7Uo7jeF5hrZyuVp9sMmEA=; b=fB8UbHN00p7fTA6MN9BwYN37/utvIhibJFwwVmq9qr4UzcH0zXkhbrLpF1jK5MDEOY 80s/om2onz2jqz6dIO0e8mFkv9Slf69vb5fN7VR8fBQEOCrwuOtJyEHgP3dtU2SsH7re TVe/8wwvOO36sXW02qdASwPlwyOIJ7c6ln3LaaqMtHCPUevtSPjbLqGW15MIFWIBllbR +nw5chtOT96vVQ06NHtsLSylr6tfKQACfNA3ZvkJyO79VIDYQipAjdB6h65YPdHvPHG3 gwB2VvD53zEXWoCvKEGaxoJsJQGyvO8443Yzaz4i68bqj8mobLKv5pw3+IW1QLTHkW84 bgxw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=BBxQEzvVeByBFDk4R4BY5w7Uo7jeF5hrZyuVp9sMmEA=; b=klsBywMjWy114QTAhYkjjCXKx6jQ+Pf6DwY7G8wN5TPn97BOID5to4xS0/mJS5UMUv 7uiaaXXiMhK2xCICuHp/x/IaEM5Akyv2sllXqBL24/bZrKIe86Bfh3r4M1FHCLPhFPH+ 6U2ji30LjqXPxRufrgDp/qhPodnMA1PErvPJJG0tjiUj9mZeKvdA1d27zXvJTmWFtYi0 L8LkbMFlGyYOGZqnpCzsHem+Yvzmrdr1rQxQrW66r4Pa/7b1C5thRk438IVRHFzWm4Ax rjGEMQq4ygMU5QbkdUb8u+bXTpD4WNdovjaxH/puRFSmGvIW3WniAb8dW+bzowoIQuHb uBqA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALyK8tKUjskYoTAb3cej/IKINGM6LQIxs1Mvy4lCTxHYwTaIgudI0zwQREwaxN0/J09QuQ== X-Received: by 10.25.32.2 with SMTP id g2mr4551987lfg.188.1464889216957; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 10:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.100.11] (37-33-56-85.bb.dnainternet.fi. [37.33.56.85]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p4sm144699lfe.40.2016.06.02.10.40.15 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Thu, 02 Jun 2016 10:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Jonathan Morton In-Reply-To: <6F215C7B-D4B2-484B-B728-61E0B83FF30E@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 20:40:06 +0300 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= , cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <574FFE52.1040501@darbyshire-bryant.me.uk> <2A84540D-AA30-4BD0-AF9A-5510EA00B7E8@gmail.com> <87a8j3fyxc.fsf@toke.dk> <6F215C7B-D4B2-484B-B728-61E0B83FF30E@gmx.de> To: moeller0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Subject: Re: [Cake] cake/tc - removal of atm/ptm/ethernet specific overhead keywords X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2016 17:40:18 -0000 > On 2 Jun, 2016, at 18:42, moeller0 wrote: >=20 > I stopped believing this is =E2=80=9Csimple=E2=80=9D a long time ago; = I also failed to come up with a method to measure the actual overhead on = VDSL links=E2=80=A6 If it=E2=80=99s impossible to measure, then by definition it doesn=E2=80=99= t have a significant performance impact, and thus it doesn=E2=80=99t = matter if it is sloppily estimated. In that context an overestimate of = overhead is safe. This is really a user-interface problem. I think it would be very = helpful for LuCI to get a basic, easy =E2=80=9Cconservative overhead = compensation=E2=80=9D button that simply turns on the =E2=80=9Cconservativ= e=E2=80=9D keyword for both ingress and egress. That=E2=80=99s the bare = minimum. We can discuss details of improving granularity of that setting at = greater leisure, preferably in the context of a proper redesign of the = SQN configuration. And let=E2=80=99s be absolutely clear: I will NOT drop the shortcut = keywords from tc. - Jonathan Morton