From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.17.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2DD913B29E for ; Fri, 5 May 2017 10:06:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.17.3.29] ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.com (mrgmx103 [212.227.17.168]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0MV6PJ-1dYXab2ExB-00YNAp; Fri, 05 May 2017 16:06:20 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <1493992526496.9641@telenor.com> Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 16:06:19 +0200 Cc: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1493989225450.12354@telenor.com> <1493992526496.9641@telenor.com> To: erik.taraldsen@telenor.com X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Provags-ID: V03:K0:b5tOWCozEBcX9mKIiuypJDwYhUnpFxaRzjYQ9de09WSIGsrTOJS AmpNJ7M2lWcIIGesNOoVzv2tzMDm7HIDKpgm71vSgx3/YmMo5Y1NvjJRayGS76CxFA88uUq dCtd1f+BxN3BI3SVreM0+8MA6bXcieUam/9Htk/WosX7sRKM5JGtPPKFResiulRFXVPtQHK XtZYclum4RB6pCJf/9hyg== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V01:K0:4ujaMcJlPtA=:1B6pFv2LsrMNahct0fda1Y cCMJgNDZWBQJsgbIG9iaIB5G8VRwnpkos29G8abZEoqlhSSfcqgtFLYnM7oRslWgfrsFOGex/ E4IJA4GxF64OWHmBHooI7Ly1RkLYX57Dto1V3ppapWWCMCBt6YbN23ymagXO2DSt//56drx1a dy5uZHi+c+N+sk90f2IGpMqwMLE+4DwrILbV6ryJjuDq6G6JGVeol+bpLmpaxwpQhDobuLIWW LuGmyFBrDWA2Qt3qBbrZAz7fDg1/atS1IuC8ZeVnHjatNsRqVwhaswzAHcUjdvBB38sd9KlOV gKY1A8umMFimdTyT12Xn+oEJ4TF9SGRY06FY3hGkqNyk15ziKM3p/q5gtoJlKFwqHaVVjtqKD DNgwcNEOOqkHfBSkBgmRwg7fBCCCLI09vItW0YjFWd5k1Te683k9Od08+rwhAocmq62ikE8FH h4CM8T0e7GSXaeSXjQMWYXOt91Zo4bxHnSa9ruX5akObrn8M4cgyJEmbqCYzMsYLro2wz5Vvj o4kGqrjRlrBa0k8higuZOtH932rz3DmQawovWIDjChcPJ2ArcgmPruosJCAMQYJILPS4ZVY+A BbwfODP1p/ti8JdCU9yZ77mwpcMPZdxDZqQz6OyTljRVPUo6Ep2UAM7RK5Mo0X5HcWWW2Xwid TdLiCY1wdSYcjIriypMWC0bXXRS6toEOIvSz1Ux4HUZkgBeLeHgHgWJb0l7k6MPSU7SdCHjQu rtH1C1uuEGn3ElNAwhZQ3ozXk+/uqWHJBFJH37CQKNRqP0m8bMwU645M2synq75k9T+POSq/a wMXaqg2 Subject: Re: [Cake] ER-X now running cake, thanks for the help. :) X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 May 2017 14:06:22 -0000 Hi Erik, > On May 5, 2017, at 15:55, erik.taraldsen@telenor.com wrote: >=20 >> Fra: Sebastian Moeller >=20 >> .. snip =20 >> One problem with the unelastic load is that as far as I can tell no = flow on the open internet is=20 >> allows/assumed to behave like that (isn=E2=80=99t the default = tcp-friendly, and inelastic DOS traffic is=20 >> essentially out-lawed?) >=20 > You are right in that single stream udp without any feedback is a = quite unrealistic load. It is however usually a good indicator of = possible trouble with bufferbloat. When I get delays in the multiple = seconds range there usually is no point in running more realistic tests = such as flent, so I tend to start with that udp test before setting up a = lab. Current record found in production systems is 34 seconds. I beg to differ somewhat. With fq_codel and cake the = high-bandwidth in-elastic UDP flow (heck an in-elastic TCP flow would be = the same) really is just testing the DOS case and effectively probing = the worst case memory buffer behind the AQM. So I believe this is a = valid test, but it is not a show-stopper if this test shows deep = buffers. Netalyzr basically does that (and it also measures for short = durations so that fq_codel/cake have problems ramping their drop = probability high enough in time to make dent into the load). Under = normal operating conditions however that buffer will never fill up and = hence can be considered harmless (or actually helpfull, as it allows to = straighten out bursty traffic). Best Regards Sebastian >=20 > I'll redo the test using flent in the lab next week, using both = fq_codel and cake. >=20 > -Erik