From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-lj1-x22d.google.com (mail-lj1-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C79BC3CB35 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 22:13:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22d.google.com with SMTP id m84-v6so6840681lje.10 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 19:13:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=LpAvPPaC/p/iR3sQBJ0PkmSDZ7c2fkCAMTLKwKZLSMA=; b=gLLMUb9hJ2sjlZcbYrLGu1bQ3dLClklw+0NCEfJU8cKDSBdkhpR/5rgDau4aoZSntl Unjjsl6lyr76DE+ERSANgc/39bHKWN/AaHyV0fwTrmWnmcXotMtND8rl05D1E1i3qPxP wwFCb+Fb52qHuw6jQh7fA8XNVilEU6uUDJgbknGV30PUDNZSIet/w2TeXiq4Hka1qV0b 99UmOh8Gz6jdB0+FssSellgypaGAclmqHoB4C63lu5AO1B9qjhSacsrkyaNyv/IPoq8u yCCNTPiYGrzXWiMzqMxt7Dh8r+J+hQTp2hJToIFh0NjZr/hef1n3tpDCUZlvXBjJtlab bkMA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=LpAvPPaC/p/iR3sQBJ0PkmSDZ7c2fkCAMTLKwKZLSMA=; b=n42Ap0BNelE1xF3uvq2i5B0V84ljDsV3Isl079KVOIFtbhnxuCjKYlW0nGD7NoXD3/ Mr7+3k4pJOD7JkRHKvaP4gdDbf9kNz1jwPCqpIoMeDjoU5OjIEOJ16qbieabH7JC5w9V qHnL1BTd2TXkC5Nxe21Yr3E3/RXZ28DiPkVbRfaTVWkJdCUf36yw0jfZKOSAj9sBQjvG XBXrM2bz6+K89xKEm1bw/H0r5YRbgIAXnBM6xTBuhYJW/iJALriwjjqkUdhP8sq3V2bw dQbpTN2cvFqibJBCEog+SKYYUPVeb0MkvSnHpW4y1r3SWRGS8xXfXCyBToDhFwQcpNH2 +v9A== X-Gm-Message-State: APzg51ChvWE4aYywtcUYLzngSPrjf8I3WvDNOJWX1hIxs8e56YKfWib3 1fek1XqRjKBOgKxvOvsd3rl1dGGy X-Google-Smtp-Source: ANB0VdZ2uVIIZp9QrFVMv51cqksKd9ynOAc61Kbl4nQ91y6/s8Y17avc5bZxjbFq5rxE3qK/CQYEjA== X-Received: by 2002:a2e:5810:: with SMTP id m16-v6mr25505346ljb.134.1537409586077; Wed, 19 Sep 2018 19:13:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jonathartonsmbp.lan (83-245-234-249-nat-p.elisa-mobile.fi. [83.245.234.249]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 90-v6sm1432633lft.28.2018.09.19.19.13.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 19 Sep 2018 19:13:05 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Jonathan Morton X-Priority: 3 In-Reply-To: <0c901f41-9a3e-4b0e-8731-2c5af8f43271@email.android.com> Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 05:13:03 +0300 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= , cake@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <0c901f41-9a3e-4b0e-8731-2c5af8f43271@email.android.com> To: Ruben X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Subject: Re: [Cake] Munin-Plugins X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2018 02:13:08 -0000 > On 20 Sep, 2018, at 4:39 am, Ruben wrote: >=20 > > There's no counter for ecn marked packets in bytes, so it's = impossible to=20 > > implement it that way, too.=20 > >=20 > > ECN-Marks is in packets, so everything else need to be in packets as=20= > > well.=20 >=20 > Hmm, so the obvious follow-up question would be "why do you need to = have=20 > backlog and number of drops on the same graph?" :)=20 >=20 > I think the answer is obvious: The graph has the purpose to show the = pressure on the qdisc, so backlog is a reasonable number to show, even = if combining backlog with drops is a far fetch from data science = standpoint. I don't see any real conflict between measuring backlog in bytes and = marking events in discrete packets per second. You need to provide a = dual axis scale to fit them on the same graph, that's all - but you'd = probably need to do that anyway, because the units of measurement would = still be different. More generally, I have accepted the Codel premise that time is more = important for congestion control than either bytes or packets; for a = wired link, bytes are closer to a measure of time than packets are = (because packets of different sizes can have wildly different = serialisation delays and line occupancy). For wifi, aggregation = patterns have a bigger effect on time measures than the raw number of = bytes involved. There *is* a readout of total backlog packets as well as bytes, just not = one per tin. - Jonathan Morton