From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from sonic310-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (sonic310-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [66.163.186.204]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F4EB3B29E for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:50:00 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1510627799; bh=fL/pQIyQ2RRutDU8z9qGWST9x1RXIRvJ/90j0OJ7ZTs=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=XkUfyOWL/SfhoiBr32voXayEumIYKCl4Y1AGVXoqRUHN3nqsmR7SKbyKozGL6CtBXqD5hmFjpDbgzRrvtsXDIPykSg4Gkc2Xr7xNrsILB10BlwiR4uFVxUqsKqNUipRd1U2y/LWcvdtyZ0vz4Ig5M95VcvaWk7lkXtdiskLL+G+viSII+vEAXikheME9EnyRzaUUmmTmUXOfl7yqlSbr6kH7tz+er7G3k/hyD2D1KW6WrlPS98u7n5KBiOWncuX50JEvLPb4QNXqY+/hZ0tuwXJv+xBdaiYOACYqjj8nvo0Pa6/VO/zF/3pSTGsMR5EnGqqSWP2p9kbRsyptcFv92Q== X-YMail-OSG: LdySPmMVM1l3J3PtbD5uTSotlkverRWytQ26jvIzqr2Aq6GbHuSW7VvVholqrVj Pey4NTOefyXMLwYpu9dQIVKTAoLvkyvhrJOdd6sikjWM7HYIev9ixrOCeto4vVTxAAq.GZjW2UID YG2Zt5f83MCHUbAacYYsp4.v0bZEJ1qeyc6dbcMkGJercJqQNaPzAfRRgeE2Dbg2xP5DVB5PQf8b jdpvvz7w19mvMc5ZWdA4m0rlCJbPzwbIl6_rQA.8jkpvVfWD2o6nw6h6SAGlzXwGzHzo1uDazVr2 TxEKGY2q7B_OZQnhaDDcUsaAi2e818eJVcapdEd.G6QsJKFF8avP_teiHte_B5Fyi2Sy4pb0eVIl oTvPzsLVMGJB2H5MvXXsHVx1FF3nP1fQqZIqsgG7ZwnINsNfWhjCRpwGjG3_XWx__ns.Tw8oh_I2 gspHKR0knJ_Wy1T3XXX9cohR.0wv3OGTa3AlI6k_ciUTy4q1NHrYm0c349pdZxVcEdstt56oi01. QM7SQQ_So8Snv1Z5qlAUO59VxX0jEUfxsktJ3ODbp.UwnPCEk Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:49:59 +0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by smtp207.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 14 Nov 2017 02:49:55 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 632704.59154.bm@smtp207.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-YMail-OSG: LdySPmMVM1l3J3PtbD5uTSotlkverRWytQ26jvIzqr2Aq6G bHuSW7VvVholqrVjPey4NTOefyXMLwYpu9dQIVKTAoLvkyvhrJOdd6sikjWM 7HYIev9ixrOCeto4vVTxAAq.GZjW2UIDYG2Zt5f83MCHUbAacYYsp4.v0bZE J1qeyc6dbcMkGJercJqQNaPzAfRRgeE2Dbg2xP5DVB5PQf8bjdpvvz7w19mv Mc5ZWdA4m0rlCJbPzwbIl6_rQA.8jkpvVfWD2o6nw6h6SAGlzXwGzHzo1uDa zVr2TxEKGY2q7B_OZQnhaDDcUsaAi2e818eJVcapdEd.G6QsJKFF8avP_tei Hte_B5Fyi2Sy4pb0eVIloTvPzsLVMGJB2H5MvXXsHVx1FF3nP1fQqZIqsgG7 ZwnINsNfWhjCRpwGjG3_XWx__ns.Tw8oh_I2gspHKR0knJ_Wy1T3XXX9cohR .0wv3OGTa3AlI6k_ciUTy4q1NHrYm0c349pdZxVcEdstt56oi01.QM7SQQ_S o8Snv1Z5qlAUO59VxX0jEUfxsktJ3ODbp.UwnPCEk X-Yahoo-SMTP: 6sUo5IiswBDB2TZm6JKJ6DaI.Rsz4O0- Subject: Re: [Cake] total download rate with many flows To: David Lang Cc: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net References: <87po92aku1.fsf@nemesis.taht.net> <87efph4q0y.fsf@nemesis.taht.net> <87vaihkgr9.fsf@nemesis.taht.net> From: George Amanakis Message-ID: Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 21:49:53 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-US X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2017 02:50:00 -0000 Dear David, I agree. My point is that currently ingress mode seems to be dropping more packets than necessary to keep senders from bottlenecking the connection (when there is a large number of concurrent flows, >8). And right now, ingress mode is the only mode that achieves this in situations such as Windows updates. George On 11/13/2017 9:08 PM, David Lang wrote: > Ingres and Egress are fundamentally different due to the fact that in > ingress mode you are having to throw away data that has successfully > traversed the bottleneck (deliberatly wasting your limited resource > now to avoid having senders bottleneck the queue on the far side of > the link) > > in Egress mode, you aren't doing that, and so you can get much closer > to the actual bandwidth. > > In addition, in Ingress mode, you are always working via second-order > effects, you can't slow a transmission directly like you can in egress > mode, all you can do is drop packets and wait until the sender > notices, retransmits and slows down. Egress has full control of the > queues and can send things in any order, and may be able to > continually fill the pipe and avoid any timeouts and retransmissions > (if the flow is short enough) > > David Lang >