From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.lang.hm (syn-045-059-245-186.biz.spectrum.com [45.59.245.186]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C56703B29E; Fri, 27 Sep 2024 17:43:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dlang-mobile (unknown [10.2.2.53]) by mail.lang.hm (Postfix) with ESMTP id 976C21E0E50; Fri, 27 Sep 2024 14:43:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2024 14:43:30 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lang To: "David P. Reed" cc: Dave Taht , Cake List , bloat In-Reply-To: <1727471439.369527853@apps.rackspace.com> Message-ID: References: <1727471439.369527853@apps.rackspace.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Subject: Re: [Cake] bbr vs all the aqms, cake winning... X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2024 21:43:31 -0000 David P. Reed wrote: > 2. Google is actively pushing QUIC to replace all of TCP, and its congestion > management is not even implemented much less tested - and BBR isn't relevant > to QUIC at all. Similarly, there's more and more WebRTC traffic and RTP > traffic - many SMB's are seeing very high percentages of such traffic at their > interconnect point. Why no consideration of that at all? These guys are living > in an ancient past - networking as it was 2 decades ago. Again, to do simple, > controlled research, that's OK. But dammit, why is the research community > focusing in their 20 year rearview mirror? because they don't have real-world experience to know the difference between networking as it is taught (and how it may exist on a simple network with well behaved traffic) and the wild-wild-west of the public web that desktop/mobile users experience. > I know there are no research funds available, unless you can use GPT or some > other "Generative AI" name in the title. Hell, I bet Comcast will even take > its own research budget and give it over to some projects with AI in the name > and GPUs in the hardware. (Jason Livingood, I feel sorry for you, but I'd > recommend turning your attention to optimizing audio chat services research > rather than congestion, if you want to save your job). could the community try and produce 'traffic simulators' that implement these various protocols with a more realistic traffic pattern? something that can be turned up or down with a few presets of the mix that we can make available for the academics to use for their testing? David Lang