From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3529B3B29E; Mon, 11 Mar 2019 03:35:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [212.95.7.233] ([212.95.7.233]) by msvc-mesg-gmx122.server.lan (via HTTP); Mon, 11 Mar 2019 08:35:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: From: "Richard Scheffenegger" To: "Mikael Abrahamsson" Cc: "ecn-sane@lists.bufferbloat.net" , bloat , "codel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "Jonathan Morton" , "Cake List" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 08:35:07 +0100 In-Reply-To: References: <550C0248-1704-49DA-ABDC-49A91E0AC6F3@akamai.com> <1EE25778-8571-4506-A334-38C544470ACE@gmail.com> X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:jjZHT1G0kZIKlyW/G/foiXu16K/bBp+SqWFhNaayA0HEw1Pg4Bh+1ctWTEmo7Q08DSSjt ExpiK5rojB5GTndtf5I4HbDlw8HB9+8Sh4AV1fjQ+GJNgpWAOHbadhKzIN22gTaLB4MIdFKY7BXG ZCsqAvmdLMsTdHWYQw54YhLLSFLigx+2acrAb0Pz+sSMdmgrqMXylUbwKgHs8csuah9sjp6x1Jti V+M28wVQd3tNSaFvntLMe36DjjcvC9fAeD9AQOw/SBJiC1209SJmP2JSnHrMNhXVRCVtLE6+4Ekt 7I= X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:+mPCnwCyoXU=:yF+hvfjEecz0RMTwsUba5a MunuwDzwE8Y/0XIhE6s94EsSxSfTguJ6Y8uoliucbtjBKH/913n/k1KdGgBYbhaqqQOUZUxsi 4LW4f1z1cdon37zRO2ajRXSSz2U7vlPuSwYzyuS+1213OTSuQ4CFDw2Aa/wTr5OuLE4cydvYh 5pcRc+dQiBknFc40JM70n4I2c3uW1Tk/ZiwWXigX8j9XyZiGrHM+hmkZjbUyV9xNd6idGrdaD MPyz5ypR54Ze2j/+2HqmDfwo+pzy+ZKnTrgKJuYrkWUbPlwxaBN7JqDKAsK7yrBBUYEZqJSAo Bx2nZo8NjDfCDGxJe2E8CMa2oktbiMYx0o5+T5zrtG2ZhbaN72Ra5GqghI1HDrQ6b7gTZHxuL GsUPQbcR33e5AnQ/V+a+TqKEKRdwMBJQtkJCvWMLzP4WzkoKmBTeulrxLclTfLyRHTMsJhbr2 4U25DTTfcDgotJVff+ickT+aemY2iej+8z1uOhOHd21nWL1SGU1leDrZU65BSV+etZ0CjgMsY B6LhP5m7RK1KhA/oi6TM8dV/yDxLeScIgj+zG9EY/CT+DNXkMUAuf7/Os7qffLtdeohrry22E JhO7J+u1OD+GDWFoyv8QjSQEGP+hbYT1AEfBRApZanH2VtOfWl8lSknA== X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 05:21:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cake] [Bloat] The "Some Congestion Experienced" ECN codepoint - a new internet draft - X-BeenThere: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Cake - FQ_codel the next generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2019 07:35:09 -0000 I can remember reading quite a few papers where a similar scheme for ect(1) was adopted - often with additional changes on both ends to make use of this signal. Including schemes that encoded complex information in the stream of ect0/ect1... Where can one find simulations of the interaction between legacy and l4s flows when using this? I think the l4s use of dctcp, to allow coupled queue selection based on the transports expectations, is a more useful case for ect(1) Richard Gesendet mit der GMX iPhone App Am 11.03.19 um 08:08 schrieb Mikael Abrahamsson > On Sun, 10 Mar 2019, Jonathan Morton wrote: > > > An interesting idea, but SCE marks will appear even when there's a lot > > of congestion (at high rates, ie. probably every packet that doesn't > > carry CE), as well as showing up at low frequency when the level of > > congestion only warrants reducing the growth rate. I think the word > > "Some" is sufficiently descriptive, while "Slight" might cause people to > > ignore it completely. > > One way to handle this would be "buffering experienced" or something like > that. Ie if this packet is being enqueued into a buffer with non-trivial > number of packets in it, mark it. > > The L4S proposal also has the property that their use of this last code > point combination in the entire packet header (and this is a big thing, > this is the last unicorn) also meant the packet was allowed to be > re-ordered. I thought this was a big and nice thing, for other areas. This > new proposal removes that property. > > From what I can see, L4S actually is quite novel and has the chance to > seriously change the way queueing is done. This proposal seems more like > "a little more of what we had before" which I do not think warrants > claiming this last unicorn codepoint. I'd like its use to be truly novel > and be more than a tweak. > > -- > Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat