From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp161.iad.emailsrvr.com (smtp161.iad.emailsrvr.com [207.97.245.161]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AEFC02006AA for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:23:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp46.relay.iad1a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id F2C9CE85CB; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:22:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: from legacy10.wa-web.iad1a (legacy10.wa-web.iad1a.rsapps.net [192.168.4.112]) by smtp46.relay.iad1a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id D603CE85BF; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from reed.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by legacy10.wa-web.iad1a (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9BFFF7E0001; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@reed.com, from: dpreed@reed.com) with HTTP; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:22:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:22:51 -0400 (EDT) From: dpreed@reed.com To: "Jim Gettys" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_20120612222251000000_69069" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: html In-Reply-To: <4FD7EFC2.4010609@freedesktop.org> References: <4FD7E443.7000304@gmail.com> <4FD7EFC2.4010609@freedesktop.org> Message-ID: <1339554171.637719702@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail7.0 Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] making cerowrt chattier X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 02:23:08 -0000 ------=_20120612222251000000_69069 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0AI have an awkward worry that the functionality here is expanding to fill= all possible space on the machine, so it is less a router than a complete = "home appliance".=0A =0AOn a machine that has almost no internal isolation = capabilities, lurking potential alignment bugs whenever the kernel is updat= ed by the x86 maintainers, vulnerable to the first compromised service, it = may be a bit risky to load on to the system every app except the kitchen si= nk.=0A =0AMy personal bias would be to make a darn good router, and leave t= he other stuff entirely out of the picture.=0A =0A =0A =0A-----Original Mes= sage-----=0AFrom: "Jim Gettys" =0ASent: Tuesday, June 1= 2, 2012 9:41pm=0ATo: "Robert Bradley" =0ACc: cer= owrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net=0ASubject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] making cero= wrt chattier=0A=0A=0A=0AOn 06/12/2012 08:52 PM, Robert Bradley wrote:=0A> O= n 12/06/12 14:10, Dave Taht wrote:=0A>> Now, I've implemented a tiny jabber= server in my current builds and am=0A>> looking into javascript based chat= servers that I could incorporate=0A>> into the introductory web page, whic= h could be used for notices of=0A>> this sort, and jabber users could also = merely subscribe to notices=0A>> from the router so that they get chat noti= ces when something is going=0A>> wrong - "upgrade needed", "we are under a = syn attack", "Earthquake",=0A>> "out of memory", etc. I haven't found a li= ghtweight version of=0A>> sendxmpp yet, and have never been fond of central= ized chat services in=0A>> the first place (the venerable "talk" protocol h= as no ipv6=0A>> implementation, I note) , so perhaps there's a better stand= ard or=0A>> system I can use that is more aggressively p2p/distributed? I h= ave=0A>> seen chat demonstrated over ccnx, but don't know anything=0A>> abo= ut the implementation.=0A>>=0A>> ejabberd is NOT lightweight but supports m= uc and other services.=0A>=0A> ejabberd is probably a bit extreme for this = unless you want to add=0A> more services, but I think simple broadcasts cou= ld actually be done=0A> via the Bonjour variant of XMPP=0A> (http://xmpp.or= g/extensions/xep-0174.html). I've no idea if a=0A> command-line client exi= sts for that, though, and my attempts to send a=0A> basic message using net= cat and Empathy failed badly. Maybe I need to=0A> publish more services wi= th Avahi?=0A>=0A>>=0A>> There is also the possibility of a lightweight emai= l tool or the=0A>> winpopup utility for samba.=0A>>=0A>=0A> Winpopup might = work, but is generally disabled on the Windows side=0A> these days (since S= P2?) thanks to Messenger service spam.=0A>=0AHmmm.... I guess I should exc= avate a bit of stuff out of my memory.=0A=0ANot clear to me that the home r= outer should normally do a chat server;=0Ayou certainly don't want ejabberd= (which is written in erlang, and will=0Acertainly have a ton of funny depe= ndencies) even if you do. Openfire is=0Alikely a lot smaller, if you do; b= ut I haven't looked. There are a=0Abunch of other xmpp servers around, but= ejabberd and openfire are the=0Amost serious I found (and may be overkill)= when I went looking 3 years=0Aago. Having been badly burned by ejabberd, = I'd stay away from it, even=0Aif it is small (which it isn't, at least in R= AM footprint), if only=0Abecause fixing bugs in erlang has an "interesting"= learning curve....=0A=0AMore interesting may be to look at the telepathy l= ibrary, which provides=0Apluggable back ends to a ton of different chat sys= tems, and just look=0Ainto being able to have the router use whatever serve= r the user prefers=0A(which might be on the router, if we find a small one = that is suitable.=0A=0AYou'll find telepathy here: http://telepathy.freedes= ktop.org/wiki/=0A=0AIt's too late tonight to dig into it at all.=0A - Jim= =0A=0A_______________________________________________=0ACerowrt-devel maili= ng list=0ACerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net=0Ahttps://lists.bufferbloat.n= et/listinfo/cerowrt-devel ------=_20120612222251000000_69069 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I have an = awkward worry that the functionality here is expanding to fill all possible= space on the machine, so it is less a router than a complete "home applian= ce".

=0A

 

=0A

On a machine that has almost no internal isolation capabilit= ies, lurking potential alignment bugs whenever the kernel is updated by the= x86 maintainers, vulnerable to the first compromised service, it may be a = bit risky to load on to the system every app except the kitchen sink.

= =0A

 

=0A

My personal bias would be to make a darn good router, and leave the = other stuff entirely out of the picture.

=0A

 

=0A

 

=0A

 

=0A

-----Or= iginal Message-----
From: "Jim Gettys" <jg@freedesktop.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 9:41pm
To: "Robert Bradley" <robert.b= radley1@gmail.com>
Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
Sub= ject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] making cerowrt chattier

=0A
=0A

On 06/12/2012= 08:52 PM, Robert Bradley wrote:
> On 12/06/12 14:10, Dave Taht wro= te:
>> Now, I've implemented a tiny jabber server in my current = builds and am
>> looking into javascript based chat servers that= I could incorporate
>> into the introductory web page, which co= uld be used for notices of
>> this sort, and jabber users could = also merely subscribe to notices
>> from the router so that they= get chat notices when something is going
>> wrong - "upgrade ne= eded", "we are under a syn attack", "Earthquake",
>> "out of mem= ory", etc. I haven't found a lightweight version of
>> sendxmpp= yet, and have never been fond of centralized chat services in
>>= ; the first place (the venerable "talk" protocol has no ipv6
>> = implementation, I note) , so perhaps there's a better standard or
>= > system I can use that is more aggressively p2p/distributed? I have
>> seen chat demonstrated over ccnx, but don't know anything
&= gt;> about the implementation.
>>
>> ejabberd is N= OT lightweight but supports muc and other services.
>
> eja= bberd is probably a bit extreme for this unless you want to add
> m= ore services, but I think simple broadcasts could actually be done
>= ; via the Bonjour variant of XMPP
> (http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep= -0174.html). I've no idea if a
> command-line client exists for th= at, though, and my attempts to send a
> basic message using netcat = and Empathy failed badly. Maybe I need to
> publish more services = with Avahi?
>
>>
>> There is also the possibi= lity of a lightweight email tool or the
>> winpopup utility for = samba.
>>
>
> Winpopup might work, but is genera= lly disabled on the Windows side
> these days (since SP2?) thanks t= o Messenger service spam.
>
Hmmm.... I guess I should excavat= e a bit of stuff out of my memory.

Not clear to me that the home= router should normally do a chat server;
you certainly don't want eja= bberd (which is written in erlang, and will
certainly have a ton of fu= nny dependencies) even if you do. Openfire is
likely a lot smaller, i= f you do; but I haven't looked. There are a
bunch of other xmpp serve= rs around, but ejabberd and openfire are the
most serious I found (and= may be overkill) when I went looking 3 years
ago. Having been badly = burned by ejabberd, I'd stay away from it, even
if it is small (which = it isn't, at least in RAM footprint), if only
because fixing bugs in e= rlang has an "interesting" learning curve....

More interesting m= ay be to look at the telepathy library, which provides
pluggable back = ends to a ton of different chat systems, and just look
into being able= to have the router use whatever server the user prefers
(which might = be on the router, if we find a small one that is suitable.

You'l= l find telepathy here: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/

It= 's too late tonight to dig into it at all.
- Jim

_________= ______________________________________
Cerowrt-devel mailing list
Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/lis= tinfo/cerowrt-devel

=0A
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