From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp141.iad.emailsrvr.com (smtp141.iad.emailsrvr.com [207.97.245.141]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6512021F1DE for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 10:45:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp54.relay.iad1a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id B6E9D2B05C6; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:45:53 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: from legacy14.wa-web.iad1a (legacy14.wa-web.iad1a.rsapps.net [192.168.4.100]) by smtp54.relay.iad1a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 7F34A2B0683; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from reed.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by legacy14.wa-web.iad1a (Postfix) with ESMTP id 624E72630002; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:45:53 -0500 (EST) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@reed.com, from: dpreed@reed.com) with HTTP; Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:45:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 13:45:53 -0500 (EST) From: dpreed@reed.com To: "Dave Taht" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_20130118134553000000_65475" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: html In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1358534753.401125130@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail7.0 Cc: Justin Madru , cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] DLNA with wired and wireless devices X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2013 18:45:55 -0000 ------=_20130118134553000000_65475 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0AA non-obvious gateway application that some people like is a "DMZ". In = other words, a portion of the home network (one computer), that handles tra= ffic from the outside that one never wants to reach internal resources that= are not in the DMZ.=0A =0AHome routers often talk about how to setup a DMZ= , so there ought to be a way to do so in a routed network.=0A =0APlease don= 't react to this by assuming that I personally like the DMZ concept. I wou= ld rather do something more subtle - provide a "honeypot" feature that attr= acts would-be scanners/attackers to a place where they can do no harm, and = where information about them can be collected. (the latter could be a grea= t benefit to consumers who opt-in to it, whereas the DMZ "feature" is often= misused by people to get around the problem of NAT getting in the way - so= rt of an anti-DMZ)=0A =0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: "Dave Taht" =0ASent: Friday, January 18, 2013 11:32am=0ATo: "Justin M= adru" =0ACc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A= Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] DLNA with wired and wireless devices=0A=0A=0A= =0A=0A=0AOn Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Justin Madru <[mailto:justin.jdm= 64@gmail.com] justin.jdm64@gmail.com> wrote:=0A=0AAwesome! It seems to be w= orking now. Thanks!=0AOK, so to me this means that routing in the home, rat= her than bridging, can work even with upnp and dlna. Which makes me happy a= s I hope to one day be able to explore the effect of bridging gigE and wire= less in larger scale networks. I have plenty of raw data showing how bad an= idea it is, but nothing comprehensive as yet.=0AA core question for me the= n becomes, how does upnp deal with multiple routers in the home, if they ar= en't natted?=0AAnother item is that upnp has the ability to advertise the a= vailable bandwidth to clients, and I was thinking of storing the rate limit= ing for ceroshaper in that rather that in a dedicated file. Does anything a= ctually use that information? What do common bittorrent clients do with upn= p nowadays? How about skype?=0AAre there any other common gateway applicati= ons that are going to break in a routed environment?-- =0ADave T=C3=A4ht=0A= =0AFixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: [http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscr= ibe.html] http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html ------=_20130118134553000000_65475 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= A non-obvious gateway application that some people like is a "DMZ".  I= n other words, a portion of the home network (one computer), that handles t= raffic from the outside that one never wants to reach internal resources th= at are not in the DMZ.

=0A

 

=0A=

Home routers often talk about how to setup= a DMZ, so there ought to be a way to do so in a routed network.

=0A

 

=0A

= Please don't react to this by assuming that I personally like the DMZ conce= pt.  I would rather do something more subtle - provide a "honeypot" fe= ature that attracts would-be scanners/attackers to a place where they can d= o no harm, and where information about them can be collected.  (the la= tter could be a great benefit to consumers who opt-in to it, whereas the DM= Z "feature" is often misused by people to get around the problem of NAT get= ting in the way - sort of an anti-DMZ)

=0A

 

=0A

-----Original Message-----=
From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, Janu= ary 18, 2013 11:32am
To: "Justin Madru" <justin.jdm64@gmail.com>=
Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-de= vel] DLNA with wired and wireless devices

=0A


=0A
On Fri, Jan 18,= 2013 at 12:36 AM, Justin Madru <justin.jdm64@gmail.com> wrote:
=0A
=0A
A= wesome! It seems to be working now. Thanks!
=0A
=0A
OK= , so to me this means that routing in the home, rather than bridging, can w= ork even with upnp and dlna. Which makes me happy as I hope to one day be a= ble to explore the effect of bridging gigE and wireless in larger scale net= works. I have plenty of raw data showing how bad an idea it is, but nothing= comprehensive as yet.
=0A
A core question for me then becomes, ho= w does upnp deal with multiple routers in the home, if they aren't natted?<= /div>=0A
Another item is that upnp has the ability to advertise the ava= ilable bandwidth to clients, and I was thinking of storing the rate limitin= g for ceroshaper in that rather that in a dedicated file. Does anything act= ually use that information? What do common bittorrent clients do with upnp = nowadays? How about skype?
=0A
Are there any other common gateway = applications that are going to break in a routed environment?
=0A=0A--
Dave T=C3=A4ht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: h= ttp://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html
 ------=_20130118134553000000_65475--