[Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[Dave Taht]

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I spent most of the last week prepping a talk at stanford; trying to dispel
a few delusions.

The core points that I tried to make:

* Mice and ants account for a lot of traffic and sfq helps a lot on
managing those
* both inbound and outbound rate limiting, fq, and queue management are
needed
* rrul is cool

http://mirrors.bufferbloat.net/Talks/Stanford2013/

While it was filmed, we (kathie nichols, eric dumazet, luigi rizzo, and the
students) really got distracted with some current issues and way off the
slides. It was not my finest hour. I think the modena talk went much
better.

I should probably have brought out that slides 20 (pfifo_fast) and 23
(simple_qos, basically) were taken 1 minute apart, on the same
connection.... twice the utilization, 1/15th the latency and jitter... to
me these two slides should have had everyone in the room running out to
make this stuff work on their head ends and cpe a few seconds later.
:crickets:

Anyway:

The rest of the week I spent starting an internet draft, justin and I
building up the yurtlab testbed, upgrading hardware there, adding
instrumentation and trying to get to where I can track various data points
like power failures, packet drops, etc.

* Yes, I'm trying to do an internet draft requiring some form of fq + aqm
on the edge networks.

I'm really terrible at this.

* Yurtlab

The deployment (3.7.4-4 and 3.7.5-2 based on wndr3800s, pico station m2hp,
and nanostation M5) just survived a 24 hour dance party and total
saturation of the links... I really like the m2hps in particular.

I picked up a couple samsung 2955-dw laser printers. At 100 bucks each,
they were a steal. And it turned out they supported ipv6, and worked well
with linux out of the box. So, yea, I can fiddle with dhcpv6 on another
sort of box.

While I'm talking about hardware, these power controllers are excellent.

http://www.digital-loggers.com/lpc.html

And I'd got nut in cerowrt to work with these so I'd be able to collect
power status.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OTEZ5I/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00

Turned out really useful, had one flaky spot where the power was 90v or
less.

And, wow...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000OTEZ5I/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i00

Lastly, anybody want a couple picostation 2HPs? They only have 4MB of flash
and don't do ipv6 and are pretty useless for my purposes....

* the quest for new hardware

I continue to look for new hardware to support, as the wndr3800s remain
scarce. I rather appreciate the donations to cerowrt (yurtlab is a
different budget), it makes the quest for this stuff a lot easier, and
mentally "gives me a budget" for the quest.

I'm looking at this board:

http://www.globalscaletechnologies.com/p-58-mirabox-development-kit.aspx

I'm grumpy, as it doesn't have an esata interface internally, apparently.
It would have been good to have one of those hooked up to a good flash disk
for active measurements, as a core bottleneck on using a mini-sd card for
storage is the pathetic write speed on that sort of card. Aside from that,
it looked interesting. I also ordered a dreamplug, another raspberri pi...

but, darn it, I can't find the perfect hardware. I've been trying to sort
out what I want, perhaps I can't do it all on one piece of gear or have to
design something that does do things right. I like the zedboard a lot.

At the moment I hope that a guruplug or equivalent can be made to capture
8Mbit/sec of packet headers off a mirrored port.

Also, openwrt has added support for a new atheros reference board, a couple
tplink boards...



-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt:
http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[Mark Constable]

On 2013-02-03 09:18am, Dave Taht wrote:
> I'm grumpy, as it doesn't have an esata interface internally, apparently.

https://www.google.com?q=HP+N40L+MicroServer

I know this is no where near an embedded device but I just got one of these
on sale (new model out) for $220 and I think it's the most useful all-round
cheap server box I've ever seen. Some people have it running 16 GB ram and
I've got mine booting off an SSD via external eSATA. Very well built with 2
x half height PCI slots (4 x eth port card?). Only missing USB3 ports and
hot-swap drive space. And, very quiet with just an SSD.

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[Dave Taht]

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On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Mark Constable <markc@renta.net> wrote:

> On 2013-02-03 09:18am, Dave Taht wrote:
> > I'm grumpy, as it doesn't have an esata interface internally, apparently.
>
> https://www.google.com?q=HP+N40L+MicroServer
>
> I know this is no where near an embedded device but I just got one of these
> on sale (new model out) for $220 and I think it's the most useful all-round
> cheap server box I've ever seen. Some people have it running 16 GB ram and
> I've got mine booting off an SSD via external eSATA. Very well built with 2
> x half height PCI slots (4 x eth port card?). Only missing USB3 ports and
> hot-swap drive space. And, very quiet with just an SSD.
>

I'd be very interested to know how fast it could do packet header captures.

Line rate (gigE) would be good.

Does it do BQL? (what is the onboard ethernet chips)





>
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
>



-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt:
http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[Dave Taht]

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Well, I see it for 320. Then you need to add a SSD, and a decent network
card, and I suppose it could be made to work. Awful big, tho, in an era
where I can get 1/2TB on an 2.5 inch SSD.

What I'd wanted was closer to a dreamplug - 160 bucks, two network ports,
but with an internal SSD. bonus points if it fit into a 1U rack and ate as
little power as possible.

Principal use case here is to be a "network monitor" with enough oomph to
run stuff like cacti/mrtg/snmp tools, as well as do captures off of a
mirrored switch port.



On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Mark Constable <markc@renta.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2013-02-03 09:18am, Dave Taht wrote:
>> > I'm grumpy, as it doesn't have an esata interface internally,
>> apparently.
>>
>> https://www.google.com?q=HP+N40L+MicroServer
>>
>> I know this is no where near an embedded device but I just got one of
>> these
>> on sale (new model out) for $220 and I think it's the most useful
>> all-round
>> cheap server box I've ever seen. Some people have it running 16 GB ram and
>> I've got mine booting off an SSD via external eSATA. Very well built with
>> 2
>> x half height PCI slots (4 x eth port card?). Only missing USB3 ports and
>> hot-swap drive space. And, very quiet with just an SSD.
>>
>
> I'd be very interested to know how fast it could do packet header captures.
>
> Line rate (gigE) would be good.
>
> Does it do BQL? (what is the onboard ethernet chips)
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dave Täht
>
> Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt:
> http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html
>



-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt:
http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[Maciej Soltysiak]

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On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 7:10 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Mark Constable <markc@renta.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2013-02-03 09:18am, Dave Taht wrote:
>> > I'm grumpy, as it doesn't have an esata interface internally,
>> apparently.
>>
>> https://www.google.com?q=HP+N40L+MicroServer
>>
>> I know this is no where near an embedded device but I just got one of
>> these
>> on sale (new model out) for $220 and I think it's the most useful
>> all-round
>> cheap server box I've ever seen. Some people have it running 16 GB ram and
>> I've got mine booting off an SSD via external eSATA. Very well built with
>> 2
>> x half height PCI slots (4 x eth port card?). Only missing USB3 ports and
>> hot-swap drive space. And, very quiet with just an SSD.
>>
>
> I'd be very interested to know how fast it could do packet header captures.
>
> Line rate (gigE) would be good.
>
> Does it do BQL? (what is the onboard ethernet chips)
>
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06b/15351-15351-4237916-4237918-4237917-4248009-5153252-5153253.html?dnr=1

says: HP NC107i Integrated PCI Express Gigabit Server Adapter

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[dpreed]

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It would be trivial to do this with a Zedboard.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 1:17pm
To: "Mark Constable" <markc@renta.net>
Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab



Well, I see it for 320. Then you need to add a SSD, and a decent network card, and I suppose it could be made to work. Awful big, tho, in an era where I can get 1/2TB on an 2.5 inch SSD.

What I'd wanted was closer to a dreamplug - 160 bucks, two network ports, but with an internal SSD. bonus points if it fit into a 1U rack and ate as little power as possible.

Principal use case here is to be a "network monitor" with enough oomph to run stuff like cacti/mrtg/snmp tools, as well as do captures off of a mirrored switch port.




On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Dave Taht <[mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com] dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:




On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Mark Constable <[mailto:markc@renta.net] markc@renta.net> wrote:

On 2013-02-03 09:18am, Dave Taht wrote:
 > I'm grumpy, as it doesn't have an esata interface internally, apparently.

[https://www.google.com?q=HP+N40L+MicroServer] https://www.google.com?q=HP+N40L+MicroServer

 I know this is no where near an embedded device but I just got one of these
 on sale (new model out) for $220 and I think it's the most useful all-round
 cheap server box I've ever seen. Some people have it running 16 GB ram and
 I've got mine booting off an SSD via external eSATA. Very well built with 2
 x half height PCI slots (4 x eth port card?). Only missing USB3 ports and
 hot-swap drive space. And, very quiet with just an SSD.


I'd be very interested to know how fast it could do packet header captures.

Line rate (gigE) would be good. 

Does it do BQL? (what is the onboard ethernet chips)



 


 _______________________________________________
 Cerowrt-devel mailing list
[mailto:Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net] Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
[https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel] https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel





-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: [http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html] http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html


-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: [http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html] http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[Dave Taht]

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On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:26 AM, <dpreed@reed.com> wrote:

> It would be trivial to do this with a Zedboard.
>

Well, need two network ports. Haven't figured out much on interfacing the
thing to offboard gear (I'd have liked it if it had a pci interface). So is
interfacing up a second network card "trivial" on the I/Os provided?

And wanted esata, or some high speed disk I/O interface for captures.

I'd rather like to continue forward on the zedboard front. The prospect of
designing an ethernet chip that actually could incorporate fq_codel etc is
very exciting. The RGII interface is available to access directly, in
particular.





>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 1:17pm
> To: "Mark Constable" <markc@renta.net>
> Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab
>
>  Well, I see it for 320. Then you need to add a SSD, and a decent network
> card, and I suppose it could be made to work. Awful big, tho, in an era
> where I can get 1/2TB on an 2.5 inch SSD.
>
> What I'd wanted was closer to a dreamplug - 160 bucks, two network ports,
> but with an internal SSD. bonus points if it fit into a 1U rack and ate as
> little power as possible.
>
> Principal use case here is to be a "network monitor" with enough oomph to
> run stuff like cacti/mrtg/snmp tools, as well as do captures off of a
> mirrored switch port.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>  On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Mark Constable <markc@renta.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2013-02-03 09:18am, Dave Taht wrote:
>>> > I'm grumpy, as it doesn't have an esata interface internally,
>>> apparently.
>>>
>>> https://www.google.com?q=HP+N40L+MicroServer
>>>
>>> I know this is no where near an embedded device but I just got one of
>>> these
>>> on sale (new model out) for $220 and I think it's the most useful
>>> all-round
>>> cheap server box I've ever seen. Some people have it running 16 GB ram
>>> and
>>> I've got mine booting off an SSD via external eSATA. Very well built
>>> with 2
>>> x half height PCI slots (4 x eth port card?). Only missing USB3 ports and
>>> hot-swap drive space. And, very quiet with just an SSD.
>>>
>>
>> I'd be very interested to know how fast it could do packet header
>> captures.
>>
>> Line rate (gigE) would be good.
>>
>> Does it do BQL? (what is the onboard ethernet chips)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
>>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave Täht
>>
>> Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt:
>> http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dave Täht
>
> Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt:
> http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html
>



-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt:
http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[dpreed]

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http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/2/prweb9154394.htm (10 GigE FMC card)
 
http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/1-2AJPAV.htm (1 GiGE FMC card)
 
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 1:39pm
To: dpreed@reed.com
Cc: "Mark Constable" <markc@renta.net>, cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab





On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:26 AM,  <[mailto:dpreed@reed.com] dpreed@reed.com> wrote:

It would be trivial to do this with a Zedboard.

Well, need two network ports. Haven't figured out much on interfacing the thing to offboard gear (I'd have liked it if it had a pci interface). So is interfacing up a second network card "trivial" on the I/Os provided?

And wanted esata, or some high speed disk I/O interface for captures.

I'd rather like to continue forward on the zedboard front. The prospect of designing an ethernet chip that actually could incorporate fq_codel etc is very exciting. The RGII interface is available to access directly, in particular.



 



 
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Taht" <[mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com] dave.taht@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 1:17pm
To: "Mark Constable" <[mailto:markc@renta.net] markc@renta.net>
 Cc: [mailto:cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net] cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab



Well, I see it for 320. Then you need to add a SSD, and a decent network card, and I suppose it could be made to work. Awful big, tho, in an era where I can get 1/2TB on an 2.5 inch SSD.

What I'd wanted was closer to a dreamplug - 160 bucks, two network ports, but with an internal SSD. bonus points if it fit into a 1U rack and ate as little power as possible.

Principal use case here is to be a "network monitor" with enough oomph to run stuff like cacti/mrtg/snmp tools, as well as do captures off of a mirrored switch port.




On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Dave Taht <[mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com] dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:




On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Mark Constable <[mailto:markc@renta.net] markc@renta.net> wrote:

On 2013-02-03 09:18am, Dave Taht wrote:
 > I'm grumpy, as it doesn't have an esata interface internally, apparently.

[https://www.google.com?q=HP+N40L+MicroServer] https://www.google.com?q=HP+N40L+MicroServer

 I know this is no where near an embedded device but I just got one of these
 on sale (new model out) for $220 and I think it's the most useful all-round
 cheap server box I've ever seen. Some people have it running 16 GB ram and
 I've got mine booting off an SSD via external eSATA. Very well built with 2
 x half height PCI slots (4 x eth port card?). Only missing USB3 ports and
 hot-swap drive space. And, very quiet with just an SSD.


I'd be very interested to know how fast it could do packet header captures.

Line rate (gigE) would be good. 

Does it do BQL? (what is the onboard ethernet chips)






 _______________________________________________
 Cerowrt-devel mailing list
[mailto:Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net] Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
[https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel] https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel





-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: [http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html] http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html


-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: [http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html] http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html


-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: [http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html] http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[Dave Taht]

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Darn I wish I'd made it to that show today.

On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 5:11 PM, <dpreed@reed.com> wrote:

> http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/2/prweb9154394.htm (10 GigE FMC card)
>
>
 impressive. Seems to require a hpc (high pin count) board, which zed isn't.


> http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/1-2AJPAV.htm (1 GiGE FMC
> card)
>

625 eu. While I am painfully aware of how much it costs to step ahead of
the bleeding edge, I think the odds are pointing harder and harder at doing
a non-fpga design that does what I want...

I may go back to looking at octeons or ti's new octeon killer.

And/or leveraging a newer atheros reference board.


>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 1:39pm
> To: dpreed@reed.com
> Cc: "Mark Constable" <markc@renta.net>,
> cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:26 AM, <dpreed@reed.com> wrote:
>
>> It would be trivial to do this with a Zedboard.
>>
>
> Well, need two network ports. Haven't figured out much on interfacing the
> thing to offboard gear (I'd have liked it if it had a pci interface). So is
> interfacing up a second network card "trivial" on the I/Os provided?
>
> And wanted esata, or some high speed disk I/O interface for captures.
>
> I'd rather like to continue forward on the zedboard front. The prospect of
> designing an ethernet chip that actually could incorporate fq_codel etc is
> very exciting. The RGII interface is available to access directly, in
> particular.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 1:17pm
>> To: "Mark Constable" <markc@renta.net>
>> Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab
>>
>>  Well, I see it for 320. Then you need to add a SSD, and a decent
>> network card, and I suppose it could be made to work. Awful big, tho, in an
>> era where I can get 1/2TB on an 2.5 inch SSD.
>>
>> What I'd wanted was closer to a dreamplug - 160 bucks, two network ports,
>> but with an internal SSD. bonus points if it fit into a 1U rack and ate as
>> little power as possible.
>>
>> Principal use case here is to be a "network monitor" with enough oomph to
>> run stuff like cacti/mrtg/snmp tools, as well as do captures off of a
>> mirrored switch port.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Mark Constable <markc@renta.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2013-02-03 09:18am, Dave Taht wrote:
>>>> > I'm grumpy, as it doesn't have an esata interface internally,
>>>> apparently.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.google.com?q=HP+N40L+MicroServer
>>>>
>>>> I know this is no where near an embedded device but I just got one of
>>>> these
>>>> on sale (new model out) for $220 and I think it's the most useful
>>>> all-round
>>>> cheap server box I've ever seen. Some people have it running 16 GB ram
>>>> and
>>>> I've got mine booting off an SSD via external eSATA. Very well built
>>>> with 2
>>>> x half height PCI slots (4 x eth port card?). Only missing USB3 ports
>>>> and
>>>> hot-swap drive space. And, very quiet with just an SSD.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'd be very interested to know how fast it could do packet header
>>> captures.
>>>
>>> Line rate (gigE) would be good.
>>>
>>> Does it do BQL? (what is the onboard ethernet chips)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
>>>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dave Täht
>>>
>>> Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt:
>>> http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave Täht
>>
>> Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt:
>> http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Dave Täht
>
> Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt:
> http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html
>



-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt:
http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[Mark Constable]

On Sun, 3 Feb 2013 10:17:42 AM Dave Taht wrote:
> Well, I see it for 320.

Yes, too much. At $220 it's good value and with a newer model out now
I expect this price to drop under $200 AUD (inc delivery) during 2013.

> Then you need to add a SSD,

I've got a 4 Bay 2.5" SATA Removable Rack for the CD slot so I see the 
N40L as a catchall for my future hand me down 3.5" and 2.5" SATA drives
on a real 3GB/s (maybe 6GB/s) SATA bus.

> and a decent network card,

Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5723 Gigabit Ethernet PCIe (rev 10)

> Awful big, tho, in an era where I can get 1/2TB on an 2.5 inch SSD.

I see it as a centralised private cloud server with up to 12TB of RAID1
that is all-round useful enough to be just about anything, even a primary
workstation in a pinch with Radeon HD4200 VGA out.

Hereabouts (AU) they are very popular so I was kind of hoping that maybe
the N40L (at ~$200) could be the basis of an "official" 64 bit version
of CeroWrt based on the UML target.

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[Dave Taht]

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On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:09 PM, Mark Constable <markc@renta.net> wrote:

> On Sun, 3 Feb 2013 10:17:42 AM Dave Taht wrote:
> > Well, I see it for 320.
>
> Yes, too much. At $220 it's good value and with a newer model out now
> I expect this price to drop under $200 AUD (inc delivery) during 2013.
>
> > Then you need to add a SSD,
>
> I've got a 4 Bay 2.5" SATA Removable Rack for the CD slot so I see the
> N40L as a catchall for my future hand me down 3.5" and 2.5" SATA drives
> on a real 3GB/s (maybe 6GB/s) SATA bus.
>
> > and a decent network card,
>
> Broadcom Corporation NetXtreme BCM5723 Gigabit Ethernet PCIe (rev 10)
>
> > Awful big, tho, in an era where I can get 1/2TB on an 2.5 inch SSD.
>
> I see it as a centralised private cloud server with up to 12TB of RAID1
> that is all-round useful enough to be just about anything, even a primary
> workstation in a pinch with Radeon HD4200 VGA out.
>
> Hereabouts (AU) they are very popular so I was kind of hoping that maybe
> the N40L (at ~$200) could be the basis of an "official" 64 bit version
> of CeroWrt based on the UML target.
>

Well, that sort of begs the question of why go through all the pain of
porting openwrt to an x86 product, when you can just install
ubuntu/fedora/any of a zillion other products on x86.

About the only compelling argument I can make for openwrt on x86 is the gui
interfaces and the 'light on flash' argument. The first makes it
theoretically easier for someone familiar with openwrt to configure an x86
based version.

The second is increasingly without point.

If you have compelling arguments for a high end x86 box for a 64 bit
cerowrt... go for it!

Please note if I could find a decent router box in the sub 120 dollar range
on x86 (with wifi, and 4 port switch) I'd dump mips in an instant. I think
cero has adequately proved that all these fancy new algorithms CAN run on
consumer hardware, already... although it seems as though the next
generation of all this consumer hardware puts WAY too much stuff in
hardware where we can't fix it in software. This latter point is my largest
concern going forward - trying to find/make/use hardware that can be
debloated.

At the moment I think however we're talking about two different things.

1) I was trying to spec a box (specifically for the yurtlab, (but others
have asked for it, too)) that would let me do stuff like do packet captures
at line rate and run mrtg  ( http://www.lns.com/papers/mrtg/ ) and that can
easily be an x86_64 box like this one... but god, the idea of making it run
openwrt when I can boot one up in ubuntu in 15 minutes....


vs

2) finding some sexy hardware that could be found at retail and improved.

As for 2, it's really looking grim. The arm folk treat ethernet as an
obsolete interface (which it is getting to be in the home!) and hook up one
chip via a usb bus, if that. The mips area is in disarray. x86 folk think
floating point and heat sinks are important in a router. ppc... ya know, I
haven't looked at life in ppc-land in a while....



>
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
>



-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt:
http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[Mark Constable]

On 04/02/13 16:29, Dave Taht wrote:
> Well, that sort of begs the question of why go through all the
> pain of porting openwrt to an x86 product,

No porting involved, the UML target is the same as the build host
so I just build on a x86_64 host and drop the UML kernel options.

> when you can just install ubuntu/fedora/any of a zillion other
> products on x86.

Sure but none of them come with exactly the same packages and patch
sets as CeroWrt. For you it may be simpler to emulate the packages
and their configs on a standard distro but for me it would be far
easier to start with a "genuine" CeroWrt installation, along with
UCI and a standard sysv init system.

> The second is increasingly without point.

Any ~$200 device + $70 for a 60GB SSD that can run a dozen or more
lxc containers of CeroWrt for various network testing is of interest.
Add 2 x 8Mb ram for $110 and potentially run up to 200 to 300 lxc
containers and that is a situation where x86_64 is essential.

I'm sprooking this hardware because I already have one and hoping
I might hear from anyone else on this list who also has the same
hardware and would like to see a downloadable 64 bit "firmware".

If so then please email me off-list.

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab

[dpreed]

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I hadn't researched the HPC FMC requirement for 10 GigE one yet.
 
The 1 GigE one is expensive, but not because of parts cost.  This is the usual huge markup that goes with stuff sold to "Design Engineers" in companies - because they can charge, they do.
 
The zedboard PMOD interface seems to be more marketing appropriate for "cheap" stuff.  There is a PMOD for 100baseT, so you could throw a few of those on your system very cheaply.   Since the interface to PMODs is 8-bit parallel, all you might need is the magnetics and PHY for GigE, and you could make a soft GigE controller in the programmable logic part of the Zynq-7020.  I'd have to check that the signalling rates would be sustainable across the PMOD connector.
 
To make an FMC board, populate it with whatever GigE chip you like, etc. is trivial.  It should cost no more to fabricate than one of these little single chip GigE PCIe cards you can buy.   What chip would you like to use?   I (or others) could design the board and BOM, kit it up for manufacturing (by, say, Sunstone or other places that do PC boards and kitted assembly in small runs).
 
Trivial stuff - maybe one could even convince Digilent and/or Avnet to do the design/mfring.
 
Wouldn't it be a lot better to have a pluggable and completely flexible highly scalable monitoring unit that could go down the wire level as needed, with the base cost being the $300 that a Zedboard goes from?
 
And it would be completely "open hardware" and :"open source".
 
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 8:47pm
To: dpreed@reed.com
Cc: "Mark Constable" <markc@renta.net>, cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab



Darn I wish I'd made it to that show today.


On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 5:11 PM,  <[mailto:dpreed@reed.com] dpreed@reed.com> wrote:

[http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/2/prweb9154394.htm] http://www.prweb.com/releases/2012/2/prweb9154394.htm (10 GigE FMC card)
 

 impressive. Seems to require a hpc (high pin count) board, which zed isn't.


 
[http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/1-2AJPAV.htm] http://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/1-2AJPAV.htm (1 GiGE FMC card)

625 eu. While I am painfully aware of how much it costs to step ahead of the bleeding edge, I think the odds are pointing harder and harder at doing a non-fpga design that does what I want...

I may go back to looking at octeons or ti's new octeon killer.

And/or leveraging a newer atheros reference board.
 

 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Taht" <[mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com] dave.taht@gmail.com>

Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 1:39pm
To: [mailto:dpreed@reed.com] dpreed@reed.com
Cc: "Mark Constable" <[mailto:markc@renta.net] markc@renta.net>, [mailto:cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net] cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
 Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab







On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:26 AM,  <[mailto:dpreed@reed.com] dpreed@reed.com> wrote:

It would be trivial to do this with a Zedboard.

Well, need two network ports. Haven't figured out much on interfacing the thing to offboard gear (I'd have liked it if it had a pci interface). So is interfacing up a second network card "trivial" on the I/Os provided?

And wanted esata, or some high speed disk I/O interface for captures.

I'd rather like to continue forward on the zedboard front. The prospect of designing an ethernet chip that actually could incorporate fq_codel etc is very exciting. The RGII interface is available to access directly, in particular.







 
-----Original Message-----
From: "Dave Taht" <[mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com] dave.taht@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 3, 2013 1:17pm
 To: "Mark Constable" <[mailto:markc@renta.net] markc@renta.net>
 Cc: [mailto:cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net] cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
 Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] stanford talk/deluged in hardware/yurtlab



Well, I see it for 320. Then you need to add a SSD, and a decent network card, and I suppose it could be made to work. Awful big, tho, in an era where I can get 1/2TB on an 2.5 inch SSD.

What I'd wanted was closer to a dreamplug - 160 bucks, two network ports, but with an internal SSD. bonus points if it fit into a 1U rack and ate as little power as possible.

Principal use case here is to be a "network monitor" with enough oomph to run stuff like cacti/mrtg/snmp tools, as well as do captures off of a mirrored switch port.




On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Dave Taht <[mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com] dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:




On Sun, Feb 3, 2013 at 10:03 AM, Mark Constable <[mailto:markc@renta.net] markc@renta.net> wrote:

On 2013-02-03 09:18am, Dave Taht wrote:
 > I'm grumpy, as it doesn't have an esata interface internally, apparently.

[https://www.google.com?q=HP+N40L+MicroServer] https://www.google.com?q=HP+N40L+MicroServer

 I know this is no where near an embedded device but I just got one of these
 on sale (new model out) for $220 and I think it's the most useful all-round
 cheap server box I've ever seen. Some people have it running 16 GB ram and
 I've got mine booting off an SSD via external eSATA. Very well built with 2
 x half height PCI slots (4 x eth port card?). Only missing USB3 ports and
 hot-swap drive space. And, very quiet with just an SSD.


I'd be very interested to know how fast it could do packet header captures.

Line rate (gigE) would be good. 

Does it do BQL? (what is the onboard ethernet chips)






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-- 
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-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: [http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html] http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html


-- 
Dave Täht

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-- 
Dave Täht

Fixing bufferbloat with cerowrt: [http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html] http://www.teklibre.com/cerowrt/subscribe.html

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