From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp97.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp97.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.97]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 64FBE21F245 for ; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 17:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp13.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 0F2BA100389; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 20:35:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: OK Received: from app32.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp13.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id DA8171001E0; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 20:35:43 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: dpreed@reed.com Received: from app32.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by 0.0.0.0:25 (trex/5.2.10); Fri, 12 Sep 2014 00:35:43 GMT Received: from reed.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by app32.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id C8571280058; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 20:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@reed.com, from: dpreed@reed.com) with HTTP; Thu, 11 Sep 2014 20:35:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2014 20:35:43 -0400 (EDT) From: dpreed@reed.com To: "Rich Brown" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_20140911203543000000_31592" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: html In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1410482143.8059509@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail7.0 Cc: Wes Felter , bloat , "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , =?utf-8?Q?Joel_Wir=C4=81mu_Pauling?= Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] =?utf-8?q?=5BBloat=5D_Fixing_bufferbloat=3A_How_a?= =?utf-8?q?bout_an_open_letter_to_the_web_benchmarkers=3F?= X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 00:36:13 -0000 ------=_20140911203543000000_31592 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0AAmong friends of mine, we can publicize this widely. But those friends = probably would like to see how the measurement would work.=0A=0A=0AOn Thurs= day, September 11, 2014 8:13pm, "Rich Brown" said= :=0A=0A=0A=0A> _______________________________________________=0A> Cerowrt-= devel mailing list=0A> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> https://list= s.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel=0A> Dave,=0A> =0A> I'll sign too. = (And I like the 98th percentile measure for each direction to give=0A> a si= ngle number that represents what's happening. It could include ping loss ra= te,=0A> as well...)=0A> =0A> But more importantly, an open letter would lik= ely be more powerful than the=0A> results I got from sending a note to the = purveyors of speed tests. I've appended=0A> the note I sent about six weeks= ago. And here's a paraphrase of their responses.=0A> (None of them seem to= have twigged to the value of measuring bloat.)=0A> =0A> speedtest.net - We= wanted to follow up and let you know that are developers were=0A> informed= of your ideas.=0A> =0A> speedof.me - We may add such features in future ve= rsions=0A> =0A> testmy.net - I think you're really going to like my next ve= rsion... you'll be=0A> provided a much deeper insight.=0A> =0A> There's a f= lock of other vendors - I just googled "Internet speed test" and got a=0A> = dozen or so more. Many are served by Ookla/Speedtest.net, but many seem to = have=0A> independent implementations...=0A> =0A> I'll pull together a list = of people to send the open letter to (trade press, etc)=0A> =0A> Rich=0A> = =0A> ----- Summary of note sent to these speed test vendors in early August= 2014 -----=0A> Hi!=0A> =0A> I would love to see real-time latency measurem= ents, and a summary of min and max=0A> times in the final report. Your page= currently displays a single "latency" value,=0A> but it appears that it's = simply the measurement before you start the data=0A> transfers. It's really= interesting to see that low value, but also the range/max=0A> of the laten= cy.=0A> =0A> Why is latency interesting? I'm a member of the CeroWrt projec= t that is working to=0A> reduce latency in home routers (and everywhere els= e). Our research has led to the=0A> development and testing of the fq_codel= algorithm that virtually eliminates=0A> bufferbloat (high latency during h= eavy traffic). You can read about the project=0A> at: http://www.bufferbloa= t.net/projects/cerowrt=0A> =0A> I'm asking you to consider implementing the= web-equivalent of our "Quick Test for=0A> Bufferbloat"http://www.bufferblo= at.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki/Quick_Test_for_Bufferbloat=0A> By showing what= happens to latency during transfers, people can become aware of=0A> the pr= oblem, and that there's a fix for it. (I'm using the CeroWrt firmware at my= =0A> house. Ping times to Google only go up by ~20-30 msec even when I max = out the DSL=0A> link in both directions.)=0A> =0A> =0A> ------=_20140911203543000000_31592 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Among friends of mine= , we can publicize this widely.  But those friends probably would like= to see how the measurement would work.

=0A=0A



On Thurs= day, September 11, 2014 8:13pm, "Rich Brown" <richb.hanover@gmail.com>= ; said:

=0A
=0A

> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-= devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> = https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
> Dave,
&= gt;
> I'll sign too. (And I like the 98th percentile measure for e= ach direction to give
> a single number that represents what's happ= ening. It could include ping loss rate,
> as well...)
> > But more importantly, an open letter would likely be more powerful = than the
> results I got from sending a note to the purveyors of sp= eed tests. I've appended
> the note I sent about six weeks ago. And= here's a paraphrase of their responses.
> (None of them seem to ha= ve twigged to the value of measuring bloat.)
>
> speedtest= .net - We wanted to follow up and let you know that are developers were
> informed of your ideas.
>
> speedof.me - We may add= such features in future versions
>
> testmy.net - I think= you're really going to like my next version... you'll be
> provide= d a much deeper insight.
>
> There's a flock of other vend= ors - I just googled "Internet speed test" and got a
> dozen or so = more. Many are served by Ookla/Speedtest.net, but many seem to have
&g= t; independent implementations...
>
> I'll pull together a= list of people to send the open letter to (trade press, etc)
> > Rich
>
> ----- Summary of note sent to these speed= test vendors in early August 2014 -----
> Hi!
>
>= I would love to see real-time latency measurements, and a summary of min a= nd max
> times in the final report. Your page currently displays a = single "latency" value,
> but it appears that it's simply the measu= rement before you start the data
> transfers. It's really interesti= ng to see that low value, but also the range/max
> of the latency.<= br />>
> Why is latency interesting? I'm a member of the CeroWr= t project that is working to
> reduce latency in home routers (and = everywhere else). Our research has led to the
> development and tes= ting of the fq_codel algorithm that virtually eliminates
> bufferbl= oat (high latency during heavy traffic). You can read about the project
> at: http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt
>
>= I'm asking you to consider implementing the web-equivalent of our "Quick T= est for
> Bufferbloat"http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/w= iki/Quick_Test_for_Bufferbloat
> By showing what happens to latency= during transfers, people can become aware of
> the problem, and th= at there's a fix for it. (I'm using the CeroWrt firmware at my
> ho= use. Ping times to Google only go up by ~20-30 msec even when I max out the= DSL
> link in both directions.)
>
>
> =0A

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