From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp65.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp65.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CFE1721F4E2 for ; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 09:20:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp17.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp17.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id F06FE180866; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:20:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from app4.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp17.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id C9839180864; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:20:47 -0500 (EST) X-Sender-Id: dpreed@reed.com Received: from app4.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by 0.0.0.0:25 (trex/5.4.2); Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:20:47 GMT Received: from reed.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by app4.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id B618F2816BF; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:20:47 -0500 (EST) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@reed.com, from: dpreed@reed.com) with HTTP; Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:20:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 12:20:47 -0500 (EST) From: dpreed@reed.com To: "Jonathan Morton" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_20150220122047000000_55161" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: html In-Reply-To: References: X-Auth-ID: dpreed@reed.com Message-ID: <1424452847.744222845@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail/11.3.12-RC Cc: cerowrt-devel , bloat Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Two d-link products tested for bloat... X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2015 17:21:18 -0000 ------=_20150220122047000000_55161 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A+1 for this idea. It really worked for Anand's and Tom's - their review= s caught fire and got followed so much that they could become profitable bu= sinesses from the ads.=0A =0ACraigslist style business model, funding both = reviewing and CeroWRT promotion activities would be the logical thing. And= I love the names! (free + some premium service that doesn't compromise the= purity and freeness of the reviews)...=0A =0AThoughts on the premium servi= ce that might go with this:=0A =0A1) some kind of "support service" that li= nks people with skilled support for WiFi in their area (for a percentage on= each referral)=0A =0A2) Premium insider news content (like LWN.net, which= I subscribe to at the professional level, because it is so great).=0A =0AT= he point of this is not to maximize the likelihood of buyout for billions o= f dollars. I don't oppose that outcome, but it is tricky to aim for that g= oal without compromising the review (and news if there) quality. You don't= want "vendor sponsorship". You might want early access to upcoming produc= ts, as long as it is on your own terms and not a way of letting vendors buy= your integrity, which they would certainly attempt.=0A =0AI don't normally= do this, but I would contribute content at a modest level - and I'm sure o= thers would. The key missing feature is an editor (e.g. Jonathan Corbet, M= ichael Swaine, Doc Searls, .. - that type of editor, not necessarily those = people).=0A =0A =0A =0A=0A=0AOn Friday, February 20, 2015 3:47am, "Jonathan= Morton" said:=0A=0A=0A=0AOut of curiosity, perhaps= you could talk to A&A about their FireBrick router. They make a big point = of having written the firmware for it themselves, and they might be more in= terested in having researchers poke at it in interesting ways than the aver= age big name. A&A are an ISP, not a hardware manufacturer by trade.=0AMean= while, I suspect the ultimate hardware vendors don't care because their cus= tomers, the big brands, don't care. They in turn don't care because neither= ISPs nor consumers care (on average). A coherent, magazine style review sy= stem with specific areas given star ratings might have a chance of fixing t= hat, if it becomes visible enough. I'm not sure that a rant blog would gain= the same sort of traction.=0ASome guidance can be gained from the business= of reviewing other computer hardware. Power supplies are generally, at the= ir core, one of a few standard designs made by one of a couple of big subco= ntractors. The quality of the components used to implement that design, and= ancillary hardware such as heatsinks and cabling, are what distinguish the= m in the marketplace. Likewise motherboards are all built around a standard= CPU socket, chipset and form factor, but the manufacturers find lots of li= ttle ways to distinguish themselves on razor thin margins; likewise graphic= s cards. Laptops are usually badly designed in at least one stupid way desp= ite the best efforts of reviewers, but thanks to them it is now possible to= sort through the general mess and find one that doesn't completely suck at= a reasonable price.=0AAs for the rating system itself:=0A- the Communicati= ons Black Hole, for when we can't get it to work at all. Maybe we can shrin= k a screen grab from Interstellar for the job.=0A- the Tin Cans & String, f= or when it passes packets okay (out of the box) but is horrible in every ot= her important respect.=0A- the Carrier Pigeon. Bonus points if we can show = it defecating on the message (or the handler's wrist).=0A- the Telegraph Po= le (or Morse Code Key). Maybe put the Titanic in the background just to rem= ind people how hard they are failing.=0A- the Dial-Up Modem. Perhaps produc= ts which become reliable and useful if the user installs OpenWRT should get= at least this rating.=0A- the Silver RJ45, for products which contrive to = be overall competent in all important respects.=0A- the Golden Fibre, for t= he very best, most outstanding examples of best practice, without any signi= ficant faults at all. Bonus Pink Floyd reference.=0AI've been toying with t= he idea of putting up a website on a completely different subject, but whic= h might have similar structure. Being able to use the same infrastructure f= or two different sites might spread the costs in an interesting way...=0A- = Jonathan Morton ------=_20150220122047000000_55161 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

+1 for this idea.  = It really worked for Anand's and Tom's - their reviews caught fire and got = followed so much that they could become profitable businesses from the ads.=

=0A

 

=0A

Craigslist style bu= siness model, funding both reviewing and CeroWRT promotion activities would= be the logical thing.  And I love the names! (free + some premium ser= vice that doesn't compromise the purity and freeness of the reviews)...

= =0A

 

=0A

Thoughts on the premium= service that might go with this:

=0A

 

=0A

1) some kind of "support service" that links people with skil= led support for WiFi in their area (for a percentage on each referral)

= =0A

 

=0A

2) Premium insider news=  content (like LWN.net, which I subscribe to at the professional leve= l, because it is so great).

=0A

 

=0A

The point of this is not to maximize the likelihood of buyout for= billions of dollars.  I don't oppose that outcome, but it is tricky t= o aim for that goal without compromising the review (and news if there) qua= lity.  You don't want "vendor sponsorship".  You might want early= access to upcoming products, as long as it is on your own terms and not a = way of letting vendors buy your integrity, which they would certainly attem= pt.

=0A

 

=0A

I don't normally= do this, but I would contribute content at a modest level - and I'm sure o= thers would.  The key missing feature is an editor (e.g. Jonathan Corb= et, Michael Swaine, Doc Searls, .. - that type of editor, not necessarily t= hose people).

=0A

 

=0A

 =

=0A

 

=0A=0A



On Friday, Febr= uary 20, 2015 3:47am, "Jonathan Morton" <chromatix99@gmail.com> said:=

=0A
=0A

Out of curiosity, perhaps you could talk to A&A about their F= ireBrick router. They make a big point of having written the firmware for i= t themselves, and they might be more interested in having researchers poke = at it in interesting ways than the average big name.  A&A are an I= SP, not a hardware manufacturer by trade.

=0A

Meanwhile, I suspect the ultimate hardware vendors don't care because th= eir customers, the big brands, don't care. They in turn don't care because = neither ISPs nor consumers care (on average). A coherent, magazine style re= view system with specific areas given star ratings might have a chance of f= ixing that, if it becomes visible enough. I'm not sure that a rant blog wou= ld gain the same sort of traction.

=0A

Some= guidance can be gained from the business of reviewing other computer hardw= are. Power supplies are generally, at their core, one of a few standard des= igns made by one of a couple of big subcontractors. The quality of the comp= onents used to implement that design, and ancillary hardware such as heatsi= nks and cabling, are what distinguish them in the marketplace. Likewise mot= herboards are all built around a standard CPU socket, chipset and form fact= or, but the manufacturers find lots of little ways to distinguish themselve= s on razor thin margins; likewise graphics cards. Laptops are usually badly= designed in at least one stupid way despite the best efforts of reviewers,= but thanks to them it is now possible to sort through the general mess and= find one that doesn't completely suck at a reasonable price.

=0A

As for the rating system itself:

=0A

- the Communications Black Hole, for when we can't get it = to work at all. Maybe we can shrink a screen grab from Interstellar for the= job.

=0A

- the Tin Cans & String, for = when it passes packets okay (out of the box) but is horrible in every other= important respect.

=0A

- the Carrier Pigeo= n. Bonus points if we can show it defecating on the message (or the handler= 's wrist).

=0A

- the Telegraph Pole (or Mor= se Code Key). Maybe put the Titanic in the background just to remind people= how hard they are failing.

=0A

- the Dial-= Up Modem. Perhaps products which become reliable and useful if the user ins= talls OpenWRT should get at least this rating.

=0A

- the Silver RJ45, for products which contrive to be overall compe= tent in all important respects.

=0A

- the G= olden Fibre, for the very best, most outstanding examples of best practice,= without any significant faults at all. Bonus Pink Floyd reference.

=0A<= p style=3D"margin:0;padding:0;font-family: tahoma; font-size: 10pt; word-wr= ap: break-word;" dir=3D"ltr">I've been toying with the idea of putting up a= website on a completely different subject, but which might have similar st= ructure. Being able to use the same infrastructure for two different sites = might spread the costs in an interesting way...

=0A

- Jonathan Morton

=0A
 ------=_20150220122047000000_55161--