From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp81.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp81.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.81]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D865F3B2B0 for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp3.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by smtp3.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 0FF76300211; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:48:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from app37.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp3.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id E781B300197; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:48:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender-Id: dpreed@reed.com Received: from app37.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by 0.0.0.0:25 (trex/5.5.4); Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:48:01 -0400 Received: from reed.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by app37.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8C5FC064C; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@reed.com, from: dpreed@reed.com) with HTTP; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:48:00 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 16:48:00 -0400 (EDT) From: dpreed@reed.com To: "Bob McMahon" Cc: "David Lang" , make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net, "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: plain In-Reply-To: References: X-Auth-ID: dpreed@reed.com Message-ID: <1466714880.88621749@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail/12.5.1-RC Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] more well funded attempts showing market demand for better wifi X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:48:01 -0000 The actual issues of transmitting on multiple channels at the same time are= quite minor if you do the work in the digital domain (pre-DAC). You just = need a higher sampling rate in the DAC and add the two signals together (an= d use a wideband filter that covers all the channels). No RF problem.=0A= =0AReceiving multiple transmissions in different channels is pretty much th= e same problem - just digitize (ADC) a wider bandwidth and separate in the = digital domain. the only real issue on receive is equalization - if you re= ceive two different signals at different receive signal strengths, the lowe= r strength signal won't get as much dynamic range in its samples.=0A=0ABut = in a LAN setup, the variability in signal strength is likely small enough t= hat you can cover that with more ADC bits (or have the MAC protocol manage = the station transmit power so that signals received at the AP are nearly th= e same power.=0A=0AEqualization at transmit works very well when there is a= central AP (as in cellular or normal WiFi systems).=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Thursday= , June 23, 2016 4:28pm, "Bob McMahon" said:=0A= =0A> _______________________________________________=0A> Make-wifi-fast mai= ling list=0A> Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> https://lists.buffer= bloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast=0A> An AP per room/area, reducing the tx = power (beacon range) has been my=0A> approach and has scaled very well. I= t does require some wires to each AP=0A> but I find that paying an electric= ian to run some quality wiring to things=0A> that are to remain stationary = has been well worth the cost.=0A> =0A> just my $0.02,=0A> Bob=0A> =0A> On T= hu, Jun 23, 2016 at 1:10 PM, David Lang wrote:=0A> =0A>> We= ll, just using the 5GHz DFS channels in 80MHz or 160 MHz wide chunks=0A>> w= ould be a huge improvement, not many people are using them (yet), and the= =0A>> wide channels let you get a lot of data out at once. If everything is= =0A>> within a good range of the AP, this would work pretty well. If you en= d up=0A>> needing multiple APs, or you have many stations, I expect that yo= u will be=0A>> better off with more APs at lower power, each using differen= t channels.=0A>>=0A>> David Lang=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>> On Thu, 23 Jun 20= 16, Bob McMahon wrote:=0A>>=0A>> Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 12:55:19 -0700=0A>>= > From: Bob McMahon =0A>>> To: Dave Taht =0A>>> Cc: make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net,=0A>>> "ce= rowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net"=0A>>> =0A>>> Subject: Re: [Make-wifi-fast] more well funded attempts showi= ng market=0A>>> demand=0A>>> for better wifi=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>> hmm, I'm= skeptical. To use multiple carriers simultaneously is difficult=0A>>> pe= r RF issues. Even if that is somehow resolved, to increase throughput=0A>= >> usually requires some form of channel bonding, i.e. needed on both sides= ,=0A>>> and brings in issues with preserving frame ordering. If this is ju= st=0A>>> channel hopping, that needs coordination between both sides (and i= sn't=0A>>> simultaneous, possibly costing more than any potential gain.) = An AP only=0A>>> solution can use channel switch announcements (CSA) but th= ere is a cost to=0A>>> those as well.=0A>>>=0A>>> I guess don't see any bre= ak though here and the marketing on the site=0A>>> seems=0A>>> to indicate = something beyond physics, at least the physics that I=0A>>> understand. Al= ways willing to learn and be corrected if I'm=0A>>> misunderstanding things= .=0A>>>=0A>>> Bob=0A>>>=0A>>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 10:18 AM, Dave Taht <= dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:=0A>>>=0A>>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 10:03 AM, D= ave Taht wrote:=0A>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>> https:/= /www.kickstarter.com/projects/portalwifi/portal-turbocharged-wifi?ref=3Dbac= kerkit=0A>>>>=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>> "Portal is the first and only router specific= ally engineered to cut=0A>>>>> through and avoid congestion, delivering con= sistent, high-performance=0A>>>>> WiFi with greater coverage throughout you= r home.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>> Its proprietary spectrum turbocharger technology pr= ovides access to=0A>>>>> 300% more of the radio airwaves than any other rou= ter, improving=0A>>>>> performance by as much as 300x, and range and covera= ge by as much as=0A>>>>> 2x in crowded settings, such as city homes and mul= ti-unit apartments"=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>> It sounds like they are promising worki= ng DFS support.=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>> It's not clear what chipset they are = using (they are claiming wave2) -=0A>>>> but they are at least publicly cla= iming to be using openwrt. So I=0A>>>> threw in enough to order one for sep= tember, just so I could comment on=0A>>>> their kickstarter page. :)=0A>>>>= =0A>>>> I'd have loved to have got in earlier (early shipments are this mon= th=0A>>>> apparently), but those were sold out.=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>= https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/portalwifi/portal-turbocharged-wifi/c= omments=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>> --=0A>>>>> Dave T=C3=A4ht=0A>>>>> Let'= s go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!=0A>>>>> http:= //blog.cerowrt.org=0A>>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>> --=0A>>>> Dave T=C3= =A4ht=0A>>>> Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better softwa= re!=0A>>>> http://blog.cerowrt.org=0A>>>> _________________________________= ______________=0A>>>> Make-wifi-fast mailing list=0A>>>> Make-wifi-fast@lis= ts.bufferbloat.net=0A>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-= fast=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>> _______________________________________________=0A>= > Make-wifi-fast mailing list=0A>> Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A>= > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast=0A>>=0A>>=0A> =0A