From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2C7DE3B29E for ; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 06:55:49 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1642161347; bh=1VFU5dFqhoA+QSCQjQyZZGqdFovKIZXhGiiuWx11bwA=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=MybVcGGfyRfGNT2fFNBgxBAaGLwVpSYsjetvhEHvXkaQQtFhtnz0hZzxoT2fHknRZ uAQJTgwxF7Hq5eGuQRCmmEtSumALlKx3MTYqAINfjRr2m1/Z6NX8+JdoTEq/uW9nsn 3eQJH6dAKMscB8ZMROdyRgzcrfxc9F17+iNIQ1xA= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from smtpclient.apple ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N7QxL-1mGE2g1d9x-017oOo; Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:55:47 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 12:55:46 +0100 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= , cerowrt-devel Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <15074B17-393D-4167-AE61-A5980C858811@gmx.de> References: <6D533A43-C4E9-4D48-BC9B-26630F1E17F5@gmx.de> <4F3A4139-6703-467C-832D-3E27294707CE@gmx.de> To: =?utf-8?Q?Jonas_M=C3=A5rtensson?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:yhYxYmlxTcnjdaIgYJ0hsAR+Nyl3vwWA1NPy358ZCyYg/IM0npJ bz71EzzhKLGGmo6q7XcvuBwQCw5uwW8X/yPUWKEbbY7Dt/0cYl2o6rgfZuG/2U1AhODrG3Q jf0UOk+hm1UxQgJ190ifiMmwttS5jbTrZOn0XHd417X/eOi9am/WFC5u6xZLfUmhdzx6s5u dTWXEEKpH6celZTmKRPMw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:1JIl04JAK0E=:ioBIqRGtv4Vozyeknu1oyg qYHFX8YvsvKQYMHEYse7BpWDRf737T44RCua1w9QUjKyaY5teUG5kQfwFZbvgNWeKdd8BMle+ HiwQDGnOuWVNYUOuVYbUO3suyiP3gK+SKbp21qoFMWNxnL5CSsbck/NnjoQMfNkOesICTXzv5 kcpwMBla2FAA/pL/KKAHd/AJG7L5k+ub2e5KVf1pDOWLh6mEBOj9uai0ynagQJRdB3z+zDw7N RzBEkokVyekGOarII2huZWAFOSLY9qmKHQNlhr0GJ1bvCJAEm2X/7XJyr31mRyissZ4rj1Ytx W+ku5/4206/W2doLHIYXB755pWeTgJJYfXCAgvtV1ednHSOImyzVYOyFGl8KVFfJvI+p6Aou9 HyRJgBqg070i4D5T0EtP6xROYgc3bWvDcfrLjVEgSaBn5dRmJ75QN8sG2Y1C71uywGwOyusXv eZajajcZ9W6Ts2Lh1V5fPdq6lpgYftDczhjvd0FdF5D+7vMPuRCElyyke6oU5Mt93bUZJKMIP wu7U8v2m9sUAm3GaM/u1Xx5grGSvKFlTitKgl3d/5xmK/xIevameloefagNRtzjhUr7EFhkae wSB0WRII1TYrhCO7f0LTSK6U4u9U0+wqpNAvp0H5JE6LZCzvHPpbpnlvoDqRlkg+fEWdigdMx S++WKitMZ/HHSoEJXh5tTsW9uvNEvNQvM/7My18ZlT7fU8NAeLqaKaUb3jJu59JuWHy3tBh7v eHCzpp4CXmUibXVo2Go/wdeYLGUdRdV1qoY3CWqkp6FhIO31yRGBhwR6CRGCcFO/b/iPCdiXv Vc0/jqEnbXEOqm0rPlZsvoA5xgHLmCQEIl7NKLMW/Vf2jkyGFuFGSUlfarKK4VUz5QrEoTLnU 8D77GcKLDkNGBV9DZaXQTebH8gp9+Z3/W+np9r2FLJXVWo+xq+/jXnbpJ4dWlNxJF3VFuscb1 gtyXkysWUZxGL2nnf4DJUeZQEzudctvfiwg2C0asLcTc4NRyVaxHd5jnrWW5xCR4QDMoHL5dF fHM26YgAydSULpxbM5Jj29LdBHtI8A1iNWWRc8DeFkpZ0/B7oZhLvGBqs8N14S67fmAxJt/nc jtpTNr6LGkvjPo= Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] a smart SFP X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:55:49 -0000 Hi Jonas, > On Jan 14, 2022, at 11:44, Jonas M=C3=A5rtensson = wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > > getting gpon more right has increasingly been on my mind >=20 > I think more right is to not turn the fiber into a shared medium in = the first place but since gpon is so popular, improving it seems like a = nice goal. >=20 > > Nobody in their right mind is going to hook up 128 terminalt to one = OLT port, I hope... >=20 > Well, sharing one OLT port between many terminals is kind of the = (only) advantage of PON, although split ratios of 32 or 64 are more = typical. But often it's the loss budget that limits the ratio. Sure, but given that you probably need a few splices along the = way and preferably pluggable connectors at both ends the loss budget is = not that large (assuming an ISP does not want to push its luck and = allows for stuff like end-users not cleaning the plug diligently before = each plugging). >=20 > > Fist question might to be "how broken is GPON/XGPON" to start with, = no? >=20 > Looking at dslreports bufferbloat results for fiber, there are many = samples with >250ms latency on the uplink. Unfortunately, this graph = doesn't show results for 500Mbit/s or 1Gbit/s services but it's still = interesting to look at: >=20 > https://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat?up=3D1 Dslreports has no cue what a link is actually using, all it = reports wich test profile a user selected, and some users like me ignore = the names and simply use/recommend the profile with the desired number = of flows. Plus quite a number of dedidedly metallic access technology = are marketed with fiber somewhere in the name, potentially confusing = users into selecting the "wrong" profile (think Fiber to the Cabinet for = copper DSL or even Hybrid-Fiber-Coax for docsis cable)... in short the = abels are nice, but I would not read too much inside those. >=20 > > this thread = https://www.computerbase.de/forum/threads/eigenes-modem-an-ftth-anschluss-= via-sfp-gpon-modul.2061989/ (in German) has some instructions how to get = root on one type of SFP ONU... >=20 > Thanks, that's an interesting thread. "Hacking" SFP ONUs seems like a = popular hobby. Here are some other resources I found: >=20 > https://github.com/zry98/SFP-GPON-ONU > https://github.com/hwti/G-010S-A > https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=3D116364&start=3D300#p771961 Thanks for the links! Regards Sebastian >=20 > > so pulling a testbed together of some sort would be cool, and for = that matter, having a SFP that could go right into a SFP enabled home = router rather than a separate unit seems like a good idea, also >=20 > Yes, but ideally I guess you would also need some control of the OLT = side. You may want to look into the VOLTHA project run by ONF: >=20 > https://wiki.opennetworking.org/display/COM/VOLTHA >=20 > /Jonas >=20 > On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 5:29 PM Sebastian Moeller = wrote: > Hi Dave, >=20 >=20 >=20 > > On Jan 13, 2022, at 16:59, Dave Taht wrote: > >=20 > > On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 7:57 AM Sebastian Moeller = wrote: > >>=20 > >> Hi Dave, > >>=20 > >>=20 > >> this thread = https://www.computerbase.de/forum/threads/eigenes-modem-an-ftth-anschluss-= via-sfp-gpon-modul.2061989/ (in German) has some instructions how to get = root on one type of SFP ONU... (I was monitoring that thread for general = interest, turns out the intel falcon plattform seems somehow based on an = ancient OpenWrt) > >>=20 > >> Regards > >> Sebastian > >=20 > > It's really remarkable how many places are running an ancient = openwrt. > > Starlink's use was not an abomination, but a persistent reality. = Given > > how much > > chaos calmer I've found, I sometimes wish we'd somehow started the > > cerowrt project 2 years earlier. >=20 > Yes and no. >=20 > > Then we'd be done by now. >=20 > Hopefully, but then I would not have noticed the whole thing = and would probably not have participated... ;) >=20 > Regards > Sebastian=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > >=20 > >>=20 > >>> On Jan 13, 2022, at 15:38, Dave Taht wrote: > >>>=20 > >>> And a gpon onu > >>>=20 > >>> https://www.fs.com/products/133619.html > >>>=20 > >>> On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 6:23 AM Sebastian Moeller = wrote: > >>>>=20 > >>>> That is similar to what happens in some GPON-ONT SFPs, some run a = full small Linux distribution like OpenWrt inside.... though for = ethernet that is unexpected. > >>>> This is also similar to SFP VDSL "modems" which likely run their = own embedded OS as well inside the SFP package (at a time there was even = a PCI VDSL2 "modem" that was actually running its own embedded system on = the PCI board, IIRC, it pretended to the main computer to be an ethernet = NIC). > >>>>=20 > >>>> Regards > >>>> Sebastian > >>>>=20 > >>>>=20 > >>>>=20 > >>>>> On Jan 13, 2022, at 15:18, Dave Taht = wrote: > >>>>>=20 > >>>>> running linux, of course. > >>>>>=20 > >>>>> https://blog.benjojo.co.uk/post/smart-sfp-linux-inside > >>>>>=20 > >>>>> -- > >>>>> I tried to build a better future, a few times: > >>>>> https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org > >>>>>=20 > >>>>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list > >>>>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > >>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel > >>>>=20 > >>>=20 > >>>=20 > >>> -- > >>> I tried to build a better future, a few times: > >>> https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org > >>>=20 > >>> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC > >>=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > --=20 > > I tried to build a better future, a few times: > > https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org > >=20 > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel