[Cerowrt-devel] will starlink have bufferbloat?

[Cerowrt-devel] will starlink have bufferbloat?

[Dave Taht]

With the first major starlink launch stuck on the pad, and having
never got a straight answer about how starlink was going to manage
satellite handovers and admission control, I came up with an
"annoyer-in-chief" idea to see if we could find out what the plan was.

If everybody here (500+ members of these mailing lists!) could take 2
minutes to compose an interesting tweet or reply to elon musk on the
subject, maybe we'd get somewhere. I just did one (
https://twitter.com/mtaht/status/1131131277413822464 ) but a huge
variety of posts on the theme are possible, other thoughts were things
like:

@elonmusk There seems to be no intelligent life among ISPs down here.
Has #starlink handled the #bufferbloat problem? (
https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf  )

@elonmusk Keep hoping #bufferbloat will be solved by #starlink - got a
plan? ( https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf )

do it on replies to anything he says about starlink, keep doin it, and
perhaps, an answer will appear.

Sometimes ya gotta be loud.

-- 

Dave Täht
CTO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-831-205-9740

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] will starlink have bufferbloat?

[Dave Taht]

And I tried my first ever post to reddit, not realizing it didn't take html....

https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/brn6gg/will_starlink_have_bufferbloat/

and slashdot also.

On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:53 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> With the first major starlink launch stuck on the pad, and having
> never got a straight answer about how starlink was going to manage
> satellite handovers and admission control, I came up with an
> "annoyer-in-chief" idea to see if we could find out what the plan was.
>
> If everybody here (500+ members of these mailing lists!) could take 2
> minutes to compose an interesting tweet or reply to elon musk on the
> subject, maybe we'd get somewhere. I just did one (
> https://twitter.com/mtaht/status/1131131277413822464 ) but a huge
> variety of posts on the theme are possible, other thoughts were things
> like:
>
> @elonmusk There seems to be no intelligent life among ISPs down here.
> Has #starlink handled the #bufferbloat problem? (
> https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf  )
>
> @elonmusk Keep hoping #bufferbloat will be solved by #starlink - got a
> plan? ( https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf )
>
> do it on replies to anything he says about starlink, keep doin it, and
> perhaps, an answer will appear.
>
> Sometimes ya gotta be loud.
>
> --
>
> Dave Täht
> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> http://www.teklibre.com
> Tel: 1-831-205-9740



-- 

Dave Täht
CTO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-831-205-9740

[Cerowrt-devel] Does Ubiquiti Unifi have bufferbloat and unfair/bloated WiFi scheduling?

[David P. Reed]

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I have been chatting with a startup in the Multi-User Dwelling networking operations space, and they seem to really be attracted to Ubiquiti Unifi systems. I can't blame them for wanting a comprehensive and evolving system.
 
But on the questions related to bufferbloat and making wifi both low latency and fast, I really don't know much about these products. (I have a Unifi 10 Gb/sec switch as my home/lab fiber backbone, but that's not really relevant to answering this question).
 
So, since you, Dave, and others have been talking about real-world fq_codel etc. and faster wifi scheduling, does anyone know what the status at Ubiquiti is?
 
I know some here run OpenWRT/LEDE on Unifi APs, but that's not my question, really.
 
Any knowledge out there?
 
(I'd like to recommend that they run some actual load tests - flent RRUL, etc. - but I think they might need some help).
Personally I have no stake whatever in their use, but I'd love to get someone to start solving the bloat and queueing/scheduling problems.
 

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] Does Ubiquiti Unifi have bufferbloat and unfair/bloated WiFi scheduling?

[Jim Gettys]

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I'm running OpenWrt on the Unifi AC Mesh access point; (it has an ath10k
chip). It sits on a pole above my ridgeline and provides service to my
house and yard.

I dunno what the state in the Ubiquity provided firmware is.

OpenWrt has the nice new wifi code in it, which indeed really fixes
bufferbloat.

As I also have an ath9k in my laptop and run Linux, I now even do
(previously insane) things like have my scheduled backups go over WiFi while
teleconferencing, and I'm a happy camper.

Getting OpenWrt installed on it the first time is a bit of a chore; I have
some notes around someplace on what I learned when I did the install.
                                              - Jim


On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 2:46 PM David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:

> I have been chatting with a startup in the Multi-User Dwelling networking
> operations space, and they seem to really be attracted to Ubiquiti Unifi
> systems. I can't blame them for wanting a comprehensive and evolving system.
>
>
>
> But on the questions related to bufferbloat and making wifi both low
> latency and fast, I really don't know much about these products. (I have a
> Unifi 10 Gb/sec switch as my home/lab fiber backbone, but that's not really
> relevant to answering this question).
>
>
>
> So, since you, Dave, and others have been talking about real-world
> fq_codel etc. and faster wifi scheduling, does anyone know what the status
> at Ubiquiti is?
>
>
>
> I know some here run OpenWRT/LEDE on Unifi APs, but that's not my
> question, really.
>
>
>
> Any knowledge out there?
>
>
>
> (I'd like to recommend that they run some actual load tests - flent RRUL,
> etc. - but I think they might need some help).
>
> Personally I have no stake whatever in their use, but I'd love to get
> someone to start solving the bloat and queueing/scheduling problems.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Make-wifi-fast mailing list
> Make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/make-wifi-fast

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] Does Ubiquiti Unifi have bufferbloat and unfair/bloated WiFi scheduling?

[John Yates]

On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 3:22 PM Jim Gettys <jg@freedesktop.org> wrote:
>
> Getting OpenWrt installed on it the first time is a bit of a chore; I have some notes around someplace on what I learned when I did the install.

From a lurker: If you can find them please do post them.

/john

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] Does Ubiquiti Unifi have bufferbloat and unfair/bloated WiFi scheduling?

[Jim Gettys]

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On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 3:41 PM John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org> wrote:

> On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 3:22 PM Jim Gettys <jg@freedesktop.org> wrote:
> >
> > Getting OpenWrt installed on it the first time is a bit of a chore; I
> have some notes around someplace on what I learned when I did the install.
>
> From a lurker: If you can find them please do post them.
>

There is some guaranteed staleness in the document.

Unless you are in a hurry, I'm planning to do a fresh install on new kit in
a few weeks and will update then with current experience. I'll post them
then...  The router uses a different bootloader/flash arrangement, and so
is a bit of a hassle relative to most routers.

If you are in a hurry, I'll email you the document I have (my son
successfully followed them), so they are not complete rubbish.

Jim


Jim

>
> /john
>

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] will starlink have bufferbloat?

[David P. Reed]

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Sorry, I can't help - I never spend time or effort on Twitter, Reddit, etc. because I see no value and lots of problems in doing that.
 
Musk probably wouldn't love my views on most of his companies, anyway.
I hope he gets something right on this one.
 
On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 6:45am, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com> said:



> And I tried my first ever post to reddit, not realizing it didn't take html....
> 
> https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/brn6gg/will_starlink_have_bufferbloat/
> 
> and slashdot also.
> 
> On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:53 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > With the first major starlink launch stuck on the pad, and having
> > never got a straight answer about how starlink was going to manage
> > satellite handovers and admission control, I came up with an
> > "annoyer-in-chief" idea to see if we could find out what the plan was.
> >
> > If everybody here (500+ members of these mailing lists!) could take 2
> > minutes to compose an interesting tweet or reply to elon musk on the
> > subject, maybe we'd get somewhere. I just did one (
> > https://twitter.com/mtaht/status/1131131277413822464 ) but a huge
> > variety of posts on the theme are possible, other thoughts were things
> > like:
> >
> > @elonmusk There seems to be no intelligent life among ISPs down here.
> > Has #starlink handled the #bufferbloat problem? (
> > https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf )
> >
> > @elonmusk Keep hoping #bufferbloat will be solved by #starlink - got a
> > plan? ( https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf )
> >
> > do it on replies to anything he says about starlink, keep doin it, and
> > perhaps, an answer will appear.
> >
> > Sometimes ya gotta be loud.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Dave Täht
> > CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> > http://www.teklibre.com
> > Tel: 1-831-205-9740
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Dave Täht
> CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> http://www.teklibre.com
> Tel: 1-831-205-9740
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
> 

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] will starlink have bufferbloat?

[Dave Taht]

Well, I was encouraged by a job listing (which I put in for a few
minutes after they successfully deployed the first batch)

In that it implies that they have solutions to a variety of issues,
need someone to write 'em down, and plan to use linux for the ground
stations.

https://www.theladders.com/job/sr-wireless-protocol-software-engineer-spacex-palo-alto-ca_39321968?utm_campaign=google_jobs_apply&utm_source=google_jobs_apply&utm_medium=organic


On Thu, May 23, 2019 at 11:48 AM David P. Reed <dpreed@deepplum.com> wrote:
>
> Sorry, I can't help - I never spend time or effort on Twitter, Reddit, etc. because I see no value and lots of problems in doing that.
>
>
>
> Musk probably wouldn't love my views on most of his companies, anyway.
>
> I hope he gets something right on this one.
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 6:45am, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com> said:
>
> > And I tried my first ever post to reddit, not realizing it didn't take html....
> >
> > https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/brn6gg/will_starlink_have_bufferbloat/
> >
> > and slashdot also.
> >
> > On Wed, May 22, 2019 at 11:53 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > With the first major starlink launch stuck on the pad, and having
> > > never got a straight answer about how starlink was going to manage
> > > satellite handovers and admission control, I came up with an
> > > "annoyer-in-chief" idea to see if we could find out what the plan was.
> > >
> > > If everybody here (500+ members of these mailing lists!) could take 2
> > > minutes to compose an interesting tweet or reply to elon musk on the
> > > subject, maybe we'd get somewhere. I just did one (
> > > https://twitter.com/mtaht/status/1131131277413822464 ) but a huge
> > > variety of posts on the theme are possible, other thoughts were things
> > > like:
> > >
> > > @elonmusk There seems to be no intelligent life among ISPs down here.
> > > Has #starlink handled the #bufferbloat problem? (
> > > https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf )
> > >
> > > @elonmusk Keep hoping #bufferbloat will be solved by #starlink - got a
> > > plan? ( https://blog.tohojo.dk/media/bufferbloat-and-beyond.pdf )
> > >
> > > do it on replies to anything he says about starlink, keep doin it, and
> > > perhaps, an answer will appear.
> > >
> > > Sometimes ya gotta be loud.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > Dave Täht
> > > CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> > > http://www.teklibre.com
> > > Tel: 1-831-205-9740
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Dave Täht
> > CTO, TekLibre, LLC
> > http://www.teklibre.com
> > Tel: 1-831-205-9740
> > _______________________________________________
> > Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
> >



-- 

Dave Täht
CTO, TekLibre, LLC
http://www.teklibre.com
Tel: 1-831-205-9740