From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp111.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp111.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BC9443B29D for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 13:16:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from app14.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp38.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id 5666B3BA9; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 13:16:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from deepplum.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by app14.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43F75600BA; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 13:16:55 -0500 (EST) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@deepplum.com, from: dpreed@deepplum.com) with HTTP; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 13:16:55 -0500 (EST) X-Auth-ID: dpreed@deepplum.com Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 13:16:55 -0500 (EST) From: "David P. Reed" To: "Dave Taht" Cc: "cerowrt-devel" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_20211216131655000000_72080" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: html In-Reply-To: References: X-Client-IP: 209.6.168.128 Message-ID: <1639678615.275317887@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail/19.0.13-RC X-Classification-ID: f7f29e4e-50dc-44ad-b05e-973ff2bb973a-1-1 Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] 10gige and 2.5gige X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 18:16:55 -0000 ------=_20211216131655000000_72080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0AYes, it's very cheap and getting cheaper.=0A =0ASince its price fell to = the point I thought was cheap, my home has a 10 GigE fiber backbone, 2 swit= ches in my main centers of computers, lots of 10 GigE NICs in servers, and = even dual 10 GigE adapters in a Thunderbolt 3 external adapter for my prima= ry desktop, which is a Skull Canyon NUC.=0A =0AI strongly recommend people = use fiber and sfp+ DAC cabling because twisted pair, while cheaper, actuall= y is problematic at speeds above 1 Gig - mostly due to power and heat.=0A = =0ABTW, it's worth pointing out that USB 3.1 can handle 10 Gb/sec, too, and= USB-C connectors and cables can carry Thunderbolt at higher rates. Those = adapters are REALLY CHEAP. There's nothing inherently different about the e= lectronics, if anything, USB 3.1 is more complicate logic than the ethernet= MAC.=0A =0ASo the reason 10 GigE is still far more expensive than USB 3.1 = is mainly market volume - if 10 GigE were a consumer product, not a datacen= ter product, you'd think it would already be as cheap as USB 3.1 in compute= rs and switches.=0A =0ASince DOCSIS can support up to 5 Gb/s, I think, when= will Internet Access Providers start offering "Cable Modems" that support = customers who want more than "a full Gig"? Given all the current DOCSIS 3 C= MTS's etc. out there, it's just a configuration change. =0A =0ASo when will= consumer "routers" support 5 Gig, 10 Gig?=0A =0AOn Thursday, December 16, = 2021 11:20am, "Dave Taht" said:=0A=0A=0A=0A> has real= ly got cheap.=0A> =0A> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/innodisk-m2-2280-1= 0gbe-adapter=0A> =0A> On the other hand users are reporting issues with act= ually using=0A> 2.5ghz cable with this router in particular, halving the ac= hieved rate=0A> by negotiating 2.5gbit vs negotiating 1gbit.=0A> =0A> https= ://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.php?t=3D179145#p897836=0A> =0A> =0A> --=0A>= I tried to build a better future, a few times:=0A> https://wayforward.arch= ive.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org=0A> =0A> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, Tek= Libre, LLC=0A> _______________________________________________=0A> Cerowrt-= devel mailing list=0A> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> https://list= s.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel=0A> ------=_20211216131655000000_72080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yes, it's very cheap a= nd getting cheaper.

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Since its price fell to the point I thought was cheap, my home has a = 10 GigE fiber backbone, 2 switches in my main centers of computers, lots of= 10 GigE NICs in servers, and even dual 10 GigE adapters in a Thunderbolt 3= external adapter for my primary desktop, which is a Skull Canyon NUC.

= =0A

 

=0A

I strongly recomm= end people use fiber and sfp+ DAC cabling because twisted pair, while cheap= er, actually is problematic at speeds above 1 Gig - mostly due to power and= heat.

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=0A

BTW, it= 's worth pointing out that USB 3.1 can handle 10 Gb/sec, too, and USB-C con= nectors and cables can carry Thunderbolt at higher rates.  Those adapt= ers are REALLY CHEAP. There's nothing inherently different about the electr= onics, if anything, USB 3.1 is more complicate logic than the ethernet MAC.=

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=0A

So the reason= 10 GigE is still far more expensive than USB 3.1 is mainly market volume -= if 10 GigE were a consumer product, not a datacenter product, you'd think = it would already be as cheap as USB 3.1 in computers and switches.

=0A 

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Since DOCSIS can suppo= rt up to 5 Gb/s, I think, when will Internet Access Providers start offerin= g "Cable Modems" that support customers who want more than "a full Gig"? Gi= ven all the current DOCSIS 3 CMTS's etc. out there, it's just a configurati= on change. 

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So when will consumer "routers" support 5 Gig, 10 Gig?

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On Thursday, December 16, 2021 = 11:20am, "Dave Taht" <dave.taht@gmail.com> said:

=0A=0A

> has really got = cheap.
>
> https://www.tomshardware.com/news/innodisk-m2-2= 280-10gbe-adapter
>
> On the other hand users are reportin= g issues with actually using
> 2.5ghz cable with this router in par= ticular, halving the achieved rate
> by negotiating 2.5gbit vs nego= tiating 1gbit.
>
> https://forum.mikrotik.com/viewtopic.ph= p?t=3D179145#p897836
>
>
> --
> I tried t= o build a better future, a few times:
> https://wayforward.archive.= org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org
>
> Dave T=C3=A4ht = CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> ______________________________________________= _
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.buffer= bloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel>

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