From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp64.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp64.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.64]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D0763CB55; Wed, 2 Apr 2025 15:51:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from app41.wa-webapps.iad3a (relay-webapps.rsapps.net [172.27.255.140]) by smtp25.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (SMTP Server) with ESMTP id A305C252C5; Wed, 2 Apr 2025 15:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from deepplum.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by app41.wa-webapps.iad3a (Postfix) with ESMTP id 81C1841CBD; Wed, 2 Apr 2025 15:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: by apps.rackspace.com (Authenticated sender: dpreed@deepplum.com, from: dpreed@deepplum.com) with HTTP; Wed, 2 Apr 2025 15:51:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Auth-ID: dpreed@deepplum.com Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2025 15:51:51 -0400 (EDT) From: "David P. Reed" To: "Livingood, Jason" Cc: "Vint Cerf" , "Frantisek Borsik" , "codel-wireless@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "Jeremy Austin via Rpm" , "cerowrt-commits@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "Make-Wifi-fast" , "libreqos" , "Dave Taht via Starlink" , "Herbert Wolverson" , "=?utf-8?Q?Frantisek_=28Frank=29_Borsik?=" , "=?utf-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?utf-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?=" , "codel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "bloat" , "Cake List" , "bloat-ietf@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "cerowrt-users@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "=?utf-8?Q?Robert_Chac=C3=B3n?=" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_20250402155151000000_81469" Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Type: html In-Reply-To: <8DA2934A-43D1-4700-8F32-CA424C3FAE8D@comcast.com> References: <014po62q-r99p-71np-52r1-n84n9np63nqr@ynat.uz> <87plhvlyoc.fsf@toke.dk> <976DC4FC-44CA-4C7E-90E0-DE39B57F01E1@comcast.com> <8DA2934A-43D1-4700-8F32-CA424C3FAE8D@comcast.com> X-Client-IP: 209.6.168.128 Message-ID: <1743623511.52759201@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: webmail/19.0.28-RC X-Classification-ID: e2d9c006-1b4e-4285-b13d-dd5dbd9b148e-1-1 Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] =?utf-8?q?=5BCake=5D_=5BBloat=5D_In_loving_memory?= =?utf-8?q?_of_Dave_T=C3=A4ht_=3C3?= X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2025 19:51:52 -0000 ------=_20250402155151000000_81469 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0AHi all -=0A =0AI've already shared my sadness and appreciation of my goo= d friend Dave on LinkedIn.=0AI met him through Jim Gettys at the beginning = of the Bufferbloat discovery, and besides our long correspondence, I hope I= have given him enough support over the years - including introducing him t= o my network of friends, some of whom are on this list. Others he found by = himself. =0AHe's been a one-person social network out there, who got things= done beyond what institutions seem to be able to do. (And he amazed me by = managing to get a stodgy IETF crowd to pay attention to the congestion cont= rol issue, despite much institutional resistance, and academic networking r= esearchers who never got the point). Of course, Jason Livingood worked behi= nd the scenes very hard to bypass corporate resistance, too.=0A=0AAlso, I c= an share something that few knew about - I brought Dave into an ex parte po= licy discussion at the FCC about an idea being promoted that the FCC should= require all routers the FCC certified to have a complete "locked down" con= figuration that could not be changed by users. I got brought in because of = my FCC TAC involvement around Software Defined Radio. But the folks behind = the proposal were just using that as an excuse - they wanted really to bloc= k WISPs by raising the cost of WiFi routers. Dave, who knew more than anyth= ing why re-flashing routers made them MORE secure and could explain it in a= disarming way to lawyers and policymakers, managed to get the commissioner= s to understand that security wasn't something the FCC could certify, and a= lso why commercial routers weren't at all secure. He was so much better at = explaining in what you might call an inclusive, folksy way that he changed = the FCC's approach significantly - away from Certifying Security entirely. = (The SDR issue ended up not being relevant to routers, though SDR is still = a complex policy issue that is holding back innovation in wireless systems.= ) I'm certain Dave has had much impact of this sort.=0A =0AHowever, Dave's = passing s very frustrating to me because of two things:=0A =0A1) there is n= o one who can replace Dave. The things he made happen will continue, but he= was only getting started on issues like improving WiFi. Again, the resista= nce to improving WiFi is both institutional and corporate, and researchers = won't challenge the institutional and corporate shibboleths that get in the= way of solving critical problems in the 802.11 implementation and systems = architecture domain. (Unfortunately, WiFi has become a political term that = is being used by "wireless" operators and their suppliers to fight for or a= gainst monopoly control of the airwaves, very parallel to the problems of g= etting engineering solutions on Internet fabric that deal with congestion. = So it can't be done in the institutions and corporations focused away from = the engineering challenges. That's why Dave was needed.)=0A=0A2) I was thin= king about how we could get Dave recognized for his contributions. Like oth= er unsung heroes, Dave didn't work for BBN or some other moneyed entity who= would commission a book or a memorial. (BBN paid Katie Hafner to write the= text that later turned into her book "When Wizards Stay Up Late", which od= dly only talked about the ARPANET/Internet pioneers who worked for BBN, omi= tting many of my Internet colleagues.) Dave wasn't the kind of guy that ge= ts Awards from the Computer History Museum or the ACM or IEEE. He wasn't be= loved at IETF or ISOC that I know of. He's in the category of folks like No= el Chiappa or Bram Cohen or Richard Stallman or Aaron Swartz - people I thi= nk really changed the way we think about computing and internetworking, but= who won't be in the official histories.=0A=0AI was hoping (before this wee= k) to try to =0AOn Wednesday, April 2, 2025 09:59, "Livingood, Jason via Ca= ke" said:=0A=0A=0A=0A> Very sad news indeed! I= had the pleasure of working closely with Dave for 15=0A> years. He was gen= erous with his time and had a unique way of bringing people=0A> together to= make the internet better for everyone!=0A> =0A> =0A> I had to go down memo= ry lane to recall when I first really started working with=0A> him. It may = have been around 2010 or so. In 2012, I started sending funds his way=0A> v= ia my day job to help him and his merry network of collaborators work to de= velop=0A> the CoDel AQM.=0A> =0A> =0A> Funding him was not necessarily easy= , as Dave had a unique way of working and was=0A> best when he had complete= autonomy and only loosely outlined goals - typically=0A> hard to sell in a= big company. But he could make things happen, so it worked. And=0A> I knew= when he started complaining about maintenance needs on his boat, or the=0A= > need to recruit a new person to the project, or about a great new (and pr= actical!)=0A> idea, that it was time to top up his funding. ;-)=0A> =0A> = =0A> That initial CoDel support in 2012 was extended to underwrite work on = his idea to=0A> develop RRUL, the first real working latency test that I ca= n remember=0A> (https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/RRUL_Spec/= =0A> ). He was = also=0A> helpful in introducing me to Simon Kelley, developer of dnsmasq, s= o we could=0A> underwrite some IPv6 features in dnsmasq (and Dave convinced= Simon to come to an=0A> IETF meeting to help gather requirements and meet = folks).=0A> =0A> =0A> Dave got CoDel working, so we developed a compelling = demo of CoDel on a DOCSIS=0A> network (via a CeroWrt-based router connected= to a cable modem) and brought him=0A> along to IETF-86 in March 2013 in Or= lando - see interview with Dave at=0A> https://youtu.be/NuHYOu4aAqg?si=3Dp0= SJHLNpp_6n7XP9&t=3D195=0A> .=0A> =0A> =0A> From 2014-2017, I was able to make additional f= inancial support happen for him, so=0A> he could do R&D into how to improve= buffer bloat in WiFi network links and=0A> equipment, a project he called = "Make WiFi Fast". In 2020-2021 and 2024, I found=0A> funding for his work a= gain, this time to work on accelerating AQM adoption in the=0A> real world = & work related to the CAKE AQM.=0A> =0A> =0A> Thanks in part to my longstan= ding collaboration with Dave, tens of millions of=0A> DOCSIS users in our n= etwork have AQM and thus far better network responsiveness.=0A> The same is= true for AQMs he worked on, CeroWrt, LibreQoS, and other projects. He=0A> = succeeded in his goal to make the internet better for everyone!=0A> =0A> = =0A> We will miss you, Dave!=0A> =0A> =0A> Jason=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> = =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> ________________________________________= _______=0A> Cake mailing list=0A> Cake@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A> https://li= sts.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake=0A> ------=_20250402155151000000_81469 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all -

=0A

 

=0A

I've already shared my sadn= ess and appreciation of my good friend Dave on LinkedIn.

=0A

I met him through Jim Gettys at the beginning of the Bufferbloat d= iscovery, and besides our long correspondence, I hope I have given him enou= gh support over the years - including introducing him to my network of frie= nds, some of whom are on this list. Others he found by himself. 
= He's been a one-person social network out there, who got things done beyond= what institutions seem to be able to do. (And he amazed me by managing to = get a stodgy IETF crowd to pay attention to the congestion control issue, d= espite much institutional resistance, and academic networking researchers w= ho never got the point). Of course, Jason Livingood worked behind the scene= s very hard to bypass corporate resistance, too.

Also, I can sha= re something that few knew about - I brought Dave into an ex parte policy d= iscussion at the FCC about an idea being promoted that the FCC should requi= re all routers the FCC certified to have a complete "locked down" configura= tion that could not be changed by users. I got brought in because of my FCC= TAC involvement around Software Defined Radio. But the folks behind the pr= oposal were just using that as an excuse - they wanted really to block WISP= s by raising the cost of WiFi routers. Dave, who knew more than anything wh= y re-flashing routers made them MORE secure and could explain it in a disar= ming way to lawyers and policymakers, managed to get the commissioners to u= nderstand that security wasn't something the FCC could certify, and also wh= y commercial routers weren't at all secure. He was so much better at explai= ning in what you might call an inclusive, folksy way that he changed the FC= C's approach significantly - away from Certifying Security entirely. (The S= DR issue ended up not being relevant to routers, though SDR is still a comp= lex policy issue that is holding back innovation in wireless systems.) I'm = certain Dave has had much impact of this sort.

=0A

&= nbsp;

=0A

However, Dave's passing s very frustrating= to me because of two things:

=0A

 

=0A

1) there is no one who can replace Dave. The things he made= happen will continue, but he was only getting started on issues like impro= ving WiFi. Again, the resistance to improving WiFi is both institutional an= d corporate, and researchers won't challenge the institutional and corporat= e shibboleths that get in the way of solving critical problems in the 802.1= 1 implementation and systems architecture domain. (Unfortunately, WiFi has = become a political term that is being used by "wireless" operators and thei= r suppliers to fight for or against monopoly control of the airwaves, very = parallel to the problems of getting engineering solutions on Internet fabri= c that deal with congestion. So it can't be done in the institutions and co= rporations focused away from the engineering challenges. That's why Dave wa= s needed.)

2) I was thinking about how we could get Dave recogni= zed for his contributions. Like other unsung heroes, Dave didn't work for B= BN or some other moneyed entity who would commission a book or a memorial. = (BBN paid Katie Hafner to write the text that later turned into her book "W= hen Wizards Stay Up Late", which oddly only talked about the ARPANET/Intern= et pioneers who worked for BBN, omitting many of my Internet colleagues.)&n= bsp; Dave wasn't the kind of guy that gets Awards from the Computer History= Museum or the ACM or IEEE. He wasn't beloved at IETF or ISOC that I know o= f. He's in the category of folks like Noel Chiappa or Bram Cohen or Richard= Stallman or Aaron Swartz - people I think really changed the way we think = about computing and internetworking, but who won't be in the official histo= ries.

I was hoping (before this week) to try to 

=0A

On Wednesday, April 2, 2025 09:59, "Livingood, Jason via C= ake" <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net> said:

=0A
=0A

> Very sad news indeed! I = had the pleasure of working closely with Dave for 15
> years. He wa= s generous with his time and had a unique way of bringing people
> = together to make the internet better for everyone!
>
> > I had to go down memory lane to recall when I first really started = working with
> him. It may have been around 2010 or so. In 2012, I = started sending funds his way
> via my day job to help him and his = merry network of collaborators work to develop
> the CoDel AQM.
>
>
> Funding him was not necessarily easy, as Dave = had a unique way of working and was
> best when he had complete aut= onomy and only loosely outlined goals - typically
> hard to sell in= a big company. But he could make things happen, so it worked. And
>= ; I knew when he started complaining about maintenance needs on his boat, o= r the
> need to recruit a new person to the project, or about a gre= at new (and practical!)
> idea, that it was time to top up his fund= ing. ;-)
>
>
> That initial CoDel support in 2012= was extended to underwrite work on his idea to
> develop RRUL, the= first real working latency test that I can remember
> (https://www= .bufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/RRUL_Spec/
> <https://www.b= ufferbloat.net/projects/bloat/wiki/RRUL_Spec/>). He was also
> h= elpful in introducing me to Simon Kelley, developer of dnsmasq, so we could=
> underwrite some IPv6 features in dnsmasq (and Dave convinced Sim= on to come to an
> IETF meeting to help gather requirements and mee= t folks).
>
>
> Dave got CoDel working, so we dev= eloped a compelling demo of CoDel on a DOCSIS
> network (via a Cero= Wrt-based router connected to a cable modem) and brought him
> alon= g to IETF-86 in March 2013 in Orlando - see interview with Dave at
>= ; https://youtu.be/NuHYOu4aAqg?si=3Dp0SJHLNpp_6n7XP9&t=3D195
> = <https://youtu.be/NuHYOu4aAqg?si=3Dp0SJHLNpp_6n7XP9&t=3D195>.
>
>
> From 2014-2017, I was able to make additional = financial support happen for him, so
> he could do R&D into how= to improve buffer bloat in WiFi network links and
> equipment, a p= roject he called "Make WiFi Fast". In 2020-2021 and 2024, I found
>= funding for his work again, this time to work on accelerating AQM adoption= in the
> real world & work related to the CAKE AQM.
> =
>
> Thanks in part to my longstanding collaboration with = Dave, tens of millions of
> DOCSIS users in our network have AQM an= d thus far better network responsiveness.
> The same is true for AQ= Ms he worked on, CeroWrt, LibreQoS, and other projects. He
> succee= ded in his goal to make the internet better for everyone!
>
&= gt;
> We will miss you, Dave!
>
>
> Jaso= n
>
>
>
>
>
>
&g= t;
>
>
>
>
> _________________= ______________________________
> Cake mailing list
> Cake@l= ists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cake<= br />>

=0A
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