From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5679021F1E1 for ; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 05:02:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.41]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCC2020CF5; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:01:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:01:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=imap.cc; h=from :content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to; s=mesmtp; bh=BX5XWPLJgUHlJyX0KiErPlGlZ+w=; b=vrEAg c2fQLL4M9/5aF/2/Cd9xxfqWeiiHfufoHGais0j2+WXjy4aYXwnw/2qAN4Jx88Pg HqvmSvlgnzGrzb3A13dtdV5xbJebd1IiN0WkvtccmjoMgZGTs5yvawWrGYVO6NkM pcgLMoOwmAqMFNFOiQ87eIa3Tk98BtNxtQJC+o= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=from:content-type:message-id:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to; s=smtpout; bh=BX5XWPLJg UHlJyX0KiErPlGlZ+w=; b=l6aX6H57XeA9bfey57Vco3ghm/kS6j9Tm0YfQd/Nd gRYhxguFut2mDcFDEt3NeDgQD8FsUpPIgQeyTXI7q4Ih2XNbSvBgkNcPVL+mGTxT 9t8FHiprNCSHZ03SGFRQ+tPMl9X4VXLKaLq0R8LM+HDeuomf2jmOdSJ/gk1P5GtN eg= X-Sasl-enc: iMnUk8gozWVHm9Y7nlqnsdyM1+nhrQrXSVNR+zm9rzag 1376481697 Received: from [172.30.42.15] (unknown [188.221.232.223]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D1D7CC00E85 for ; Wed, 14 Aug 2013 08:01:37 -0400 (EDT) From: Fred Stratton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_809E6E5E-A053-4BD0-AC49-CAEDE6EC70D1" Message-Id: <1B9D935F-E68A-490A-992A-6D219E1FB9D4@imap.cc> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 13:01:36 +0100 References: <0CA86B40-F485-4164-B183-E0A53D800FC8@imap.cc> To: "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] AQM and ADSL X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2013 12:02:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_809E6E5E-A053-4BD0-AC49-CAEDE6EC70D1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 14 Aug 2013, at 12:42, Sebastian Moeller wrote: > Hi Fred, >=20 >=20 > On Aug 13, 2013, at 21:40 , Fred Stratton = wrote: >=20 >> (apologies for wrecking the list, and introducing email addresses in = error) >>=20 >>=20 >> Begin forwarded message >>> On 13 Aug 2013, at 19:53, Sebastian Moeller wrote: >>>=20 >>>> H Fred >>>> On Aug 13, 2013, at 17:28 , Fred Stratton = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> I have been experimenting with the two sets of modified sets of = scripts and AQM panels. Thank you for constructing them. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks for testing... >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> To mention the string ''for ATM choose' is repeated erroneously in = the extended panel. >>>>=20 >>>> Fixed=85 I will try to test whether it actually works before = sending the next version... >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> The scripts work. >>>>>=20 >>>>> The link layer giving best results is ethernet. >>>>=20 >>>> What and how did you measure? Using "use HTB's private mechanism = for linklayer and overhead" or "Use tc's stab mechanism for linklayer = and overhead"? A little browsing of the kernel source makes me believe = that the HTB version is fully busted and will not do anything at all (so = I would have imagined adel atm and ethernet to behave the same). I am = thinking about how to test whether a link layer adjustment works or not. >>>=20 >>> Ein Fehler. I had both chosen. They are mutually exclusive options. = 2 days of testing lost. Shall restart. >=20 > I will try to fix the AQM scripts to make these two mutually = exclusive. That said, the HTB internal implementation does not seem to = work at all, so enabling both should be equivalent to just enabling = stab. In my quick and dirty testing (using netsurf-wrapper, which I got = working on macosx 10.8) it looks like activating both actually should = work. BTW I am looking for an open netsurf server in Europe anybody any = ideas? I am actually getting better results from htb than td-stab at present. >=20 >=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> Pinging severs whilst running Netalyzr has no effect. >>>>=20 >>>> Not being a native english speaker cloud you be more explicit, = please. Was the ping RTT affected by the concurrent netalyzr run = (especially up- and download testing)? Did you get netsurf-wrapper to = work on ubuntu?=20 >>>=20 >>> You did not understand because I explained what I did, and I did the = wrong thing. >>>=20 >>> Not done properly. Will retry. Netsurf-wrapper will not compile. I = am going to move to a more recent version of Ubuntu. >=20 > Interesting, I managed to install it under 64bit Ubuntu 12.04 in = a virtual machine, using the packages Toke supplied. I just added = http://archive.tohojo.dk/ to "Software Sources" in "Update Manager" than = I could use the "Synaptic Package Manager" to install netperf and = netperf-wrapper from Toke's repository; so I guess no ned to compile = anything. (Under maces however installing netsurf-wrapper was slightly = more involved as the recommended way via pip did not work, so I had to = download the netperf-wrapper repository from = https://github.com/tohojo/netperf-wrapper and the cd into the downloaded = directory and issue "sudo python2.7 ./setup.py install" there and I had = to symplink python2.7 to python2, but after that it also worked). > Just as a illustration what to expect, please find attached the = RRUL results with stab based AQM und without any AQM; clearly fq_codel = improves the ping RTTs a lot, so AQM works. Alas, I did not repeat this = test with shaping enabled but no link layer adjustments or with the HTB = link layer adjustments, so can not really tell, whether RRUL is = sensitive enough to show the effects of link layer adjustments or not = (my bet is on not as RRUL in my understanding uses large packets while = the ATM quantization effects are strongest for small packets). I might = try to do this tonight or when I get around to do it=85 > I would be really curious to see such plots from your setup for = comparison. Will try your suggestion for Ubuntu. > =20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> The tone buckets of the phone signal are translated into ATM = packets by the DSP in the 2 Wire 2700. I have no idea what this closed = source BSD implementation does to the packets before they are sent to = CeroWRT. >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> I am using 3.10.2-1, as I cannot get the latest version to install = with sys upgrade. >>>=20 >>> I was trying 3.10.5-1=20 >=20 > Ah, good, I might try 3.10.6-1 then directly in tftp mode. Does = anyone know how much time I have between releasing the reset button and = starting the tftp transfer?=20 >=20 sys upgrade does not work with the latest build. If you have to press = the recovery button during restart, I cannot se tftp. Does anyone know = of programmatic alternatives? > Best > Sebastian >=20 >=20 >>>=20 >>> DT has taken to stealth with his releases. >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> So 3.10.6-1 fails with sysupgrade? >>>>=20 >>>> best >>>> Sebastian >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >>>>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >=20 --Apple-Mail=_809E6E5E-A053-4BD0-AC49-CAEDE6EC70D1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 moeller0@gmx.de> wrote:
Hi = Fred,


On Aug 13, 2013, at 21:40 , Fred = Stratton <fredstratton@imap.cc> = wrote:

(apologies for wrecking the list, and introducing email = addresses in error)


Begin forwarded message
On 13 Aug 2013, at 19:53, Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> = wrote:

H Fred
On Aug 13, 2013, at = 17:28 , Fred Stratton <fredstratton@imap.cc> = wrote:

I have been experimenting with = the two sets of modified sets of scripts and AQM panels. Thank you for = constructing them.

Thanks for = testing...


To mention the string = ''for ATM choose' is repeated erroneously in the extended = panel.

Fixed=85 I will try to test = whether it actually works before sending the next = version...


The scripts = work.

The link layer giving best results is = ethernet.

What and how did you measure? = Using "use HTB's private mechanism for linklayer and overhead" or "Use = tc's stab mechanism for linklayer and overhead"? A little browsing of = the kernel source makes me believe that the HTB version is fully busted = and will not do anything at all (so I would have imagined adel atm and = ethernet to behave the same). I am thinking about how to test whether a = link layer adjustment works or not.

Ein Fehler. I = had both chosen. They are mutually exclusive options.  2 days of = testing lost. Shall = restart.

I will = try to fix the AQM scripts to make these two mutually exclusive. That = said, the HTB internal implementation does not seem to work at all, so = enabling both should be equivalent to just enabling stab. In my quick = and dirty testing (using netsurf-wrapper, which I got working on macosx = 10.8) it looks like activating both actually should work. BTW I am = looking for an open netsurf server in Europe anybody any = ideas?

I am actually = getting better results from htb than td-stab at present.


Pinging severs whilst running Netalyzr has no = effect.

Not being a native english = speaker cloud you be more explicit, please. Was the ping RTT affected by = the concurrent netalyzr run (especially up- and download testing)? Did = you get netsurf-wrapper to work on ubuntu?

You did = not understand because I explained what I did, and I did the wrong = thing.

Not done properly. Will retry. Netsurf-wrapper will not = compile. I am going to move to a more recent version of = Ubuntu.

= Interesting, I managed to install it under 64bit Ubuntu 12.04 in = a virtual machine, using the packages Toke supplied. I just = added http://archive.tohojo.dk/ to = "Software Sources" in "Update Manager" than I could use the "Synaptic = Package Manager" to install netperf and netperf-wrapper from Toke's = repository; so I guess no ned to compile anything. (Under maces however = installing netsurf-wrapper was slightly more involved as the recommended = way via pip did not work, so I had to download the netperf-wrapper = repository from https://github.com/toho= jo/netperf-wrapper and the cd into the downloaded directory and = issue "sudo python2.7 ./setup.py install" there and I had to symplink = python2.7 to python2, but after that it also worked).
Just as a = illustration what to expect, please find attached the RRUL results with = stab based AQM und without any AQM; clearly fq_codel improves the ping = RTTs a lot, so AQM works. Alas, I did not repeat this test with shaping = enabled but no link layer adjustments or with the HTB link layer = adjustments, so can not really tell, whether RRUL is sensitive enough to = show the effects of link layer adjustments or not (my bet is on not as = RRUL in my understanding uses large packets while the ATM quantization = effects are strongest for small packets). I might try to do this tonight = or when I get around to do it=85
I would be really curious to see = such plots from your setup for = comparison.

Will try = your suggestion for Ubuntu.





The tone buckets of = the phone signal are translated into ATM packets by the DSP in the 2 = Wire 2700. I have no idea what this closed source BSD implementation = does to the packets before they are sent to = CeroWRT.




I am = using 3.10.2-1, as I cannot get the latest version to install with sys = upgrade.

I was trying 3.10.5-1 =

Ah, good, = I might try 3.10.6-1 then directly in tftp mode. Does anyone know how = much time I have between releasing the reset button and starting the = tftp = transfer? 

sys = upgrade does not work with the latest build. If you have to press the = recovery button during restart, I cannot se tftp. Does anyone know of = programmatic alternatives?

= Sebastian



DT has taken to stealth with = his releases.


So = 3.10.6-1 fails with sysupgrade?

best
= Sebastian


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Cerowrt-devel@lists.bu= fferbloat.net
https://list= s.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel



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