From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qt1-x832.google.com (mail-qt1-x832.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::832]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4B0833CB40 for ; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 00:00:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-qt1-x832.google.com with SMTP id j13so9515626qtq.6 for ; Sun, 19 Sep 2021 21:00:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vt-edu.20210112.gappssmtp.com; s=20210112; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:date:message-id; bh=d0jMoS3+MeRD4UZDeAWAAmRn9AgdzUG7ia9O66hd1co=; b=mzjKNJ1ZQCGndq3VFhRqGR+C4uSm/Fzs5GYWP0v/bqvCAIwiy8WH8pJkkgxOyRf4Gy gAt7yev55aNzo6N5Axu2J5ztgjKoLpNGmqm/mk1jEkNi8LlZk44sA+aNzzuQlrx98RPB vKr6hGn6hv6hecwfBgCxomHLUkR/04MP5rRjD254+m2uw5UQHQ19nrkQXceYFmYeGR2B U+Hv+IFfOWteHnOZixndpqjpgyxZlqvU0Hq+uUgo7gmZNACWjTLq8pNXQIUUcJRckWdE QvRi7xfk1DRFnGrk/PCS90bZXIhkHPW23gAUftx9rb/4bH+Ad2WiMijCX7lzNu8CURGS desw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding:date:message-id; bh=d0jMoS3+MeRD4UZDeAWAAmRn9AgdzUG7ia9O66hd1co=; b=5QQZKYbxTxmvUcAFNVyS5OHUEj0+v33xy0A+NHGjqSEA0/zwK4C/VU8YlrLqIiw0P1 sFcaoC40XVii3Dy0hpPV5RpAY7ZeViia4uwQ9ujb9TqlX6kzQugD7NFgfIlQvzDQD7nE Rm3ScU9MoDNQhlROrbXAEhdNzuXVH3XdYZadzxn01bl1tfXcRQHS+vVYGqtEvA69siDd 8vurUDDzNkgPtHZUB2ZrPHVypXfwhQeFIB2yho3SAcj0OhO+2k3zSHCyQZmH/KAiHz+G 87T4lyD4XEuAfPgdDHoFEWLiOyzqB6gVWLYY+j2Vo8ZtFzdNbOIVgVox6KX7TyTRvcrY TEsA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532JIH0qqzaJQslaO+RYvwmIP5fuxAioMcXLM8pKfQGvL+GfFWpm wpZGYrrmooJF94ZVtTPhDIjJBQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzmIgzwbtS+3epaVAzJPh+GQDm3WTqSvtmeK5g4YobJFtYpARrhaxfvIlQ+JbvlT+Mqnf0uBw== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:5796:: with SMTP id v22mr21046274qta.373.1632110424757; Sun, 19 Sep 2021 21:00:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from turing-police ([2601:5c0:c380:d61::359]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p12sm2016102qkj.54.2021.09.19.21.00.22 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 19 Sep 2021 21:00:23 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Valdis Kletnieks From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Google-Original-From: "Valdis Kl=?utf-8?Q?=c4=93?=tnieks" X-Mailer: exmh version 2.10.0-pre 07/05/2021 with nmh-1.7+dev To: Dave Taht Cc: "David P. Reed" , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, Make-Wifi-fast , Leonard Kleinrock , Bob McMahon , Cake List , Luca Muscariello , codel@lists.bufferbloat.net, cerowrt-devel , bloat , Ben Greear In-Reply-To: References: <1625188609.32718319@apps.rackspace.com> <989de0c1-e06c-cda9-ebe6-1f33df8a4c24@candelatech.com> <1625773080.94974089@apps.rackspace.com> <1625859083.09751240@apps.rackspace.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="==_Exmh_1632110421_88012P"; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 00:00:22 -0400 Message-ID: <257851.1632110422@turing-police> Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 04:00:25 -0000 --==_Exmh_1632110421_88012P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 18:21:56 -0700, Dave Taht said: > what actually happens during a web page load, I'm pretty sure that nobody actually understands that anymore, in any more than handwaving levels. I have a nice Chrome extension called IPvFoo that actually tracks the IP addresses contacted during the load of the displayed page. I'll let you make a guess as to how many unique IP addresses were contacted during a load of https://www.cnn.com ... ... ... 145, at least half of which appeared to be analytics. And that's only the hosts that were contacted by my laptop for HTTP, and doesn't count DNS, or load-balancing front ends, or all the back-end boxes. As I commented over on NANOG, we've gotten to a point similar to that of AT&T long distance, where 60% of the effort of connecting a long distance phone call was the cost of accounting and billing for the call. --==_Exmh_1632110421_88012P Content-Type: application/pgp-signature -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: Exmh version 2.9.0 11/07/2018 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJhSAdVAAoJEI0DS38y7CIcKHkH/2MFtpJcJTqa8yc5mH4TPTpc 9ruIbUsClw6KiFjdD643ajpXIMHEAmmdEj05rleJ8DzdUKe+VDt/G1poFD5sPbc9 OVc3rIG9juKUv0aDmxS+NSD4GeVNbGVXqDJ3EuuN34ed/WK8s0Q3+KuiFNNzOuEj 8o0mDlG84k/s2XUhFnMXx7Rv/tEgZw1m/CuAfMb3j02w6iLVPANyCujGnr9/Fk2j zY76JiVd/WO8NyoBeA97ELsSsCAk2AH9eFFzFtrtx8NaBhV7dnCA5kcDVi0emtAi mUWSLjO7Ds0tv7zVKI1PNPVogPgQCJRfT7c8q/O5STPW7/otUh7+x4yQeifBCP8= =EBvE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --==_Exmh_1632110421_88012P--