From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mailout-de.gmx.net (mailout-de.gmx.net [213.165.64.22]) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 540C121F103 for ; Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail invoked by alias); 20 Sep 2012 17:04:46 -0000 Received: from tsaolab-fw.caltech.edu (EHLO [192.168.50.32]) [131.215.9.89] by mail.gmx.net (mp010) with SMTP; 20 Sep 2012 19:04:46 +0200 X-Authenticated: #24211782 X-Provags-ID: V01U2FsdGVkX1/XLA5N5SbX9FpYF7qvl4GNcw4BnrsPtLK+mghcQ9 9HcgOi9k7gS7QX Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 10:04:35 -0700 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2678F5CF-FA19-4527-9FC4-664709975507@gmx.de> References: To: Dave Taht X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) X-Y-GMX-Trusted: 0 Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] the agile thread, post-sugarland thoughts, etc X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2012 17:04:49 -0000 Hi Dave, sugarland really took stability under load to a new level. My typical = UDP flooding experiments failed to take the router down even though I = opened the flood gates for a full hour (against qos; will repeat against = simple-qos once time permits); not even a single report in dmesg on the = router. Nice work. Thanks for all the hard work. (If time allows I will = try to run a few more stability tests and will report noteworthy results = back, if any should show up) best sebastian On Sep 19, 2012, at 09:49 , Dave Taht wrote: > I am enjoying the thread on agile over here: = http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3D4564 >=20 > Trying to formalize some stuff that I do instinctively into language > more folk grok would be good. >=20 > One of the better links to come from it was this one: >=20 > = http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/valve-how-i-got-here-what-its-like-a= nd-what-im-doing-2/ >=20 > This is something like what we've done with the bufferbloat effort - > find something worthwhile, start a project to do it. However steam has > a revenue model that we thus far lack. It does help to be making > something lots of people want, and I suppose the hard problem is > making people aware we have something they want. >=20 > Speaking of that, the 3.6-rc6 kernel I was working on which has most > of the cerowrt stuff in it, but for x86 and ubuntu is here: > http://snapon.lab.bufferbloat.net/~cero1/deb/ >=20 > and (in trying to lick the memory problems) I've been doing some > builds for the 32MB ram nanostation M5 and picostation 2HP, based on > the current cerowrt patch sets. With a single SSID I haven't been able > to crash the 2HP yet with a variety of traffic. It's easy to calculate > however how to crash nearly any access point with extra SSIDs >=20 > if (Total spare ram - (4 wireless queues, 1000 packets =3D 2Mbytes > roughly for each =3D 8Mbytes) * SSIDS) < 0) > boom() >=20 > This would be improvable with a multi hw queue fq_codel as each > hardware queue could share an overall fq_codel queue (factor of 4 > decrease), however, it seems to make more sense to have the queueing > in the mac layer below the SSID abstractions. >=20 > What's currently in cerowrt is eric dumazet's suggestions to reduce > packet allocations under load. The above math was worse before - no > matter the packet size, it seemed as though 2k and 4k allocations > would be exausted. >=20 > ... >=20 > After I recover from the sprint required to get "sugarland" out the > door, I'd like to work on ways to do scrum and sprint-like things > (google hangouts?) to spread the knowledge and work around, and to > parallelize the effort more. > So much work remains. Truly addressing the wireless problem hasn't > even started. >=20 > I have to admit that after doing something like 30 official releases > of cerowrt out the last 18 months, I'd > really like to hand over the reins to that to someone else. Worse is > after the openwrt unfreeze, new kernels will start to appear, and > while working with Linux 3.6 and later would be helpful, I'd rather > have stability for a while to work on higher layers of the stack, and > get analytical. Doing both "stable" maintainence and trying to move > forward on new kernels is a problem... >=20 > Next up for me is working on qos-scripts, analytical models and tests, > and updating my test deployment to > this generation of code if all goes well. I just dumped a ton of raw > data into the deBloat repo, too. Also have a few patches for the linux > and openwrt mainlines to polish... >=20 > On other fronts, I'm still working the basic funding angles and trying > to fix things with amazon. I was encouraged enough by your (thus far > failed) attempts at financial help to sink the time I did into > sugarland (sugar helped too, I think she needs a job title). If it > wasn't for the outpouring of your support, I'd have given up. Thx. I > sure hope sugarland is better than -10. >=20 > There has been an upswing in corporate interest in the last few weeks, > I may have some news on that shortly. >=20 > I had planned originally to get to barcelona for the wireless summit > and the linux conference. I may still make the second (issue is in > doubt, though). Is anyone besides jg going to this? >=20 > http://www.wirelesssummit.org/ >=20 > It's near the home of guifi.net which is one of the larger wireless > networks I've ever heard of. >=20 > -- > Dave T=E4ht > http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki - "3.3.8-26 is out > with fq_codel!" > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel