From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (relay4-d.mail.gandi.net [217.70.183.196]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81EEC3B2A4; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 12:37:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: (Authenticated sender: jcsmail@sager.me.uk) by relay4-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 63A07E0008; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 16:37:04 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sager.me.uk; s=gm1; t=1632155825; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=/InooEZwlAaQw8GXZt0apr29bJ5MugWBQRcaKxPMi58=; b=pEakvqx/auiYsJIASV06DXj/IjjWhjgzPEGSJlyvNwfW/oTcwJibiMT7LvRtIk25bgJjVm y5y75Pkwq6WsHs5Xd3/DRFMGr9Jmw63Xmg5IrOfYvtFhaxiRn6wVEdiExgFvS3mVQhGaOK NhiY1XdrP3SMFWJpDiLarBAyhG+86i0mAUcbnEegt1xKTATSNnH0gYPEyI9N5T7jbFF68f RdxUuZYZwd4xZb8TsY6Fh8VUp1VCSaRlu3Eopr839GGEp+XoYRJ72dEs38WIVjozdU0paL J4axdpTUiRjLKu7MoGPkAPzZH6subkv0kYm7jrS/MagPp9+Lv+7SzjnciymcGw== Received: from [192.168.240.4] (helo=[127.0.0.1]) by mainserver.wc with esmtp (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1mSMHv-00319S-5e; Mon, 20 Sep 2021 17:37:03 +0100 Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 17:36:56 +0100 From: John Sager To: cake@lists.bufferbloat.net CC: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, Make-Wifi-fast , codel@lists.bufferbloat.net, cerowrt-devel , bloat User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <1625188609.32718319@apps.rackspace.com> <989de0c1-e06c-cda9-ebe6-1f33df8a4c24@candelatech.com> <1625773080.94974089@apps.rackspace.com> <1625859083.09751240@apps.rackspace.com> <257851.1632110422@turing-police> Message-ID: <27376364-28BC-44C1-B99C-2AE906AF3BB5@sager.me.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=----U2UI08VZ9VGKSK8P0OP3AGBREC27BS Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 16:18:27 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] [Starlink] [Bloat] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2021 16:37:07 -0000 ------U2UI08VZ9VGKSK8P0OP3AGBREC27BS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You guys made the Internet too easy to use :-) On 20 September 2021 13:57:33 BST, Steve Crocker wr= ote: >Related but slightly different: Attached is a slide some of my colleagues >put together a decade ago showing the number of DNS lookups involved in >displaying CNN's front page=2E > >Steve > > >On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:18 AM Valdis Kl=C4=93tnieks >wrote: > >> On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 18:21:56 -0700, Dave Taht said: >> > what actually happens during a web page load, >> >> I'm pretty sure that nobody actually understands that anymore, in any >> more than handwaving levels=2E >> >> I have a nice Chrome extension called IPvFoo that actually tracks the I= P >> addresses contacted during the load of the displayed page=2E I'll let y= ou >> make >> a guess as to how many unique IP addresses were contacted during a load >> of https://www=2Ecnn=2Ecom >> >> =2E=2E=2E >> >> >> =2E=2E=2E >> >> >> =2E=2E=2E >> >> >> 145, at least half of which appeared to be analytics=2E And that's onl= y the >> hosts that were contacted by my laptop for HTTP, and doesn't count DNS,= or >> load-balancing front ends, or all the back-end boxes=2E As I commented= over >> on >> NANOG, we've gotten to a point similar to that of AT&T long distance, >> where 60% >> of the effort of connecting a long distance phone call was the cost of >> accounting and billing for the call=2E >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet >> https://lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet/listinfo/starlink >> --=20 Sent from the Aether=2E ------U2UI08VZ9VGKSK8P0OP3AGBREC27BS Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You guys made the Internet too easy to use :-)
=

On 20 September 2021 13:57:33 BST, Steve= Crocker <steve@shinkuro=2Ecom> wrote:
Related but slightly different: At= tached is a slide some of my colleagues put together a decade ago showing t= he number of DNS lookups involved in displaying CNN's front page=2E

Steve


On Mon, Sep 20, 2021 at 8:18 AM Valdis Kl=C4=93tniek= s <valdis=2Ekletnieks@vt= =2Eedu> wrote:
On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 18:21:56 -0700, Dave Taht said:
> what actually happens during a web page load,

I'm pretty sure that nobody actually understands that anymore, in any
more than handwaving levels=2E

I have a nice Chrome extension called IPvFoo that actually tracks the IP addresses contacted during the load of the displayed page=2E I'll let you = make
a guess as to how many unique IP addresses were contacted during a load of https://www=2Ecnn=2Ecom

=2E=2E=2E


=2E=2E=2E


=2E=2E=2E


145, at least half of which appeared to be analytics=2E  And that's o= nly the
hosts that were contacted by my laptop for HTTP, and doesn't count DNS, or=
load-balancing front ends, or all the back-end boxes=2E  As I comment= ed over on
NANOG, we've gotten to a point similar to that of AT&T long distance, = where 60%
of the effort of connecting a long distance phone call was the cost of
accounting and billing for the call=2E








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