From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from out2-smtp.messagingengine.com (out2-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.26]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21E3A21F185 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 16:21:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.43]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E0FB215DF; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 19:21:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 07 Aug 2013 19:21:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=imap.cc; h=from :content-type:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:references:to :in-reply-to; s=mesmtp; bh=W2cv6KbGomwiudbVTYQcQQnHUQc=; b=J9hEy AOXAGOU9UVVglXGi+1Cp+TtCcSX72fiug8yMCzhcluM+ed1DnKeDUz9+p6cWgM4a pveyhHVNTqTWPgfsoNsUmeMt1kbawRMwlcuwgIldjes97xCqZesh0nPEOoK62S8a nl4i/FbbCxlTloldUGfrAhXuIOKu3j+HBTJEwU= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=from:content-type:message-id:mime-version :subject:date:references:to:in-reply-to; s=smtpout; bh=W2cv6KbGo mwiudbVTYQcQQnHUQc=; b=gkem4jNNEhsr1xyeaLzCjKk95HoGBGQHf7VIQKCAb vbw06tmSg0oSPphUw+YKh03K+S2cFwhGjTB472nCD3Zjb8BkYFgpXWxwhIvnOu6W w1pU21QPYd8HHEBqlrcRbmP5COC8mNQfL58Dq/WgQrqI0/J/nzVlImZMygdCjAA/ y4= X-Sasl-enc: TNdRFHsQEJObC6hywpjiSQbFrJQAmMI0AxEsn0kdE+WU 1375917682 Received: from [172.30.42.15] (unknown [188.221.232.223]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 22F6B6800B8 for ; Wed, 7 Aug 2013 19:21:22 -0400 (EDT) From: Fred Stratton Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_473A8843-D62A-444E-9CC6-598A14990543" Message-Id: <32269B74-55A6-4CFE-8372-9935325BA774@imap.cc> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2013 00:21:20 +0100 References: <46820144-E1DD-4858-A2B6-38F95D2894DB@imap.cc> <1AEAC257-ACFB-463E-B5CF-C7D086EE5B03@imap.cc> To: "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] cerowrt-3.10.2-1 dev release + owamp X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2013 23:21:25 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_473A8843-D62A-444E-9CC6-598A14990543 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 On 7 Aug 2013, at 14:38, Sebastian Moeller wrote: > Hi Fred, >=20 > this got a bit longish so I took the liberty to reduce the quoted text = a bit >=20 >=20 > On Aug 5, 2013, at 12:47 , Fred Stratton wrote: >=20 > [snipp] >=20 >>>>> You are using 2 routers in series. I have disabled all routing = functions on the 2wire. It is transparent to the network. >>>>=20 >>>> Which is exactly the situation I faced with the cable modem = before; my cerowrt-router was provisioned with an IP address through the = bridged cable-modem via DHCP, but I still could access the modem's = 192.168.100.1 with out any configuration required. I know there is some = openwork information = (http://wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/access.modem.through.nat) that makes = it look like one needs to do more involved fiddling with the firewall, = but that turned out not to be required with cerowrt. I do not know how = that works if one runs a pppoe client on cerowrt though and I left = cerowrt's ip address assignment in place. (My hunch is that since = cerowrt leaves the typical 192.168.N.N ranges alone the whole issue gets = reduced to a simple routing issue=85 and since Dave takes care that cero = works well as secondary (test) router in a typical home situation, I = guess routing 192.168.N.N is well with in cerowrt's scope) >>>> But, I guess you tried that already and it still does not work. = Would be interesting to learn why=85 >>>=20 >>> The difference is that you have the ISP gateway as a primary device = issuing a DHCP address to the cerowrt secondary router. The 2 devices = are then obviously on the same ipv4 subnet. >>>=20 >>> I use the 2700 transparently. DHCP is turned off. If I turn it on, I = have to use the device in DMZ mode with its firewall on, which I do not = want to do. >=20 > Sorry, to keep harping on this, but this is pretty close to what = I did with the cable modem. As I said I had it working with a similar = setup as you have, cerowrt was assigned a public IP (75.142.58.156) = address by the cable-ISPs dhcp server while the modems configuration = interface was running on the "private" 192.168.100.1. So the modem and = cero were decidedly not on the same IP subnet, but still I could connect = to it without needing to change anything. Initially, before I found out = that it works out of the box I had defined an alias IP address on the = wan interface of (WAN2CABLEMODEM ipv4-address: 192.168.100.2; = ipv4-netmask: 255.255.255.0). But it turned out that this was not = necessary as of cerowrt 3.3.8-17 I did not need to do this any more, = accessing the cable modem just worked by directing a browser to = 192.168.100.1. >=20 > So, have you tried to access the modem recently by simply = directing a browser to its address? And have you tried the same after = just configuring an alias as hinted above? If so what was the result? >=20 I configured an alias using uci at your prompting. It works. I can now = access the 2700. >>>=20 >>> Initially, I used the 2700 with the tomatoUSB router attached to = that, and then a router running openWRT. This setup allowed access to = the 2700, through a masquerade in tomatoUSB.=20 >>>=20 >>> Although ipv6 addresses were propagated throughout the network by = Barrier Breaker, ipv6 did not work, probably because of the way radvd = works in tomato. >>>=20 >>> I have never used the cerowrt as a secondary device because of this. >>>>=20 >>>=20 >=20 > [snipp] >=20 >>> I do not want to use cable, which is expensive. The DOCSIS box - a = custom Netgear device - has a poor reputation. >>>=20 >>> I do not want to use fibre, again, because when it comes here, it = will be supplied by BT/, and is traffic shaped and capped. The BT web = site has 35 pages of price increases for this year. >>>=20 >>> I will continue with ADSL2+ >=20 > I fully agree that getting ADSL(2+) links debated and offering = low latency internet access is worthwhile as a considerable number of = people simply have no other choice available. And this is why your case = is so interesting! If you can improve the "interactivity" in your home = and document the required steps somewhere others will have an easier = time. >=20 > Yes. Hopefully others using ADSL will also participate. >=20 > best > Sebastian >=20 >=20 >>>>=20 >>>> Best >>>> Sebastian >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> best regards >>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> On 3 Aug 2013, at 10:38, Sebastian Moeller = wrote: >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Hi Fred, >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> On Aug 1, 2013, at 00:35 , Fred Stratton = wrote: >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> On 31 Jul 2013, at 23:14, Sebastian Moeller = wrote: >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Hi Fred, >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> thanks a lot. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> On Jul 31, 2013, at 23:37 , Fred Stratton = wrote: >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> tc -s -d class show dev ge00 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> class htb 1:10 parent 1:1 leaf 110: prio 0 quantum 1500 rate = 700000bit ceil 700000bit burst 1599b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b cburst 1599b/1 = mpu 0b overhead 0b level 0=20 >>>>>>>>>>> Sent 15809014 bytes 115190 pkt (dropped 4733, overlimits 0 = requeues 0)=20 >>>>>>>>>>> rate 3616bit 3pps backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>>>>>>> lended: 115190 borrowed: 0 giants: 0 >>>>>>>>>>> tokens: 263560 ctokens: 263560 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> class htb 1:1 root rate 700000bit ceil 700000bit burst = 1599b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b cburst 1599b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b level 7=20 >>>>>>>>>>> Sent 15809014 bytes 115190 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 = requeues 0)=20 >>>>>>>>>>> rate 3616bit 3pps backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>>>>>>> lended: 0 borrowed: 0 giants: 0 >>>>>>>>>>> tokens: 263560 ctokens: 263560 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> class fq_codel 110:1b8 parent 110:=20 >>>>>>>>>>> (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)=20 >>>>>>>>>>> backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>>>>>>> deficit 84 count 0 lastcount 0 delay 10us >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> tc -s -d class show dev ifb0 >>>>>>>>>>> class htb 1:10 parent 1:1 leaf 110: prio 0 quantum 1500 rate = 7000Kbit ceil 7000Kbit burst 1598b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b cburst 1598b/1 = mpu 0b overhead 0b level 0=20 >>>>>>>>>>> Sent 192992612 bytes 168503 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 = requeues 0)=20 >>>>>>>>>>> rate 17096bit 4pps backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>>>>>>> lended: 168503 borrowed: 0 giants: 0 >>>>>>>>>>> tokens: 27454 ctokens: 27454 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> class htb 1:1 root rate 7000Kbit ceil 7000Kbit burst 1598b/1 = mpu 0b overhead 0b cburst 1598b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b level 7=20 >>>>>>>>>>> Sent 192992612 bytes 168503 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 = requeues 0)=20 >>>>>>>>>>> rate 17096bit 4pps backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>>>>>>> lended: 0 borrowed: 0 giants: 0 >>>>>>>>>>> tokens: 27454 ctokens: 27454 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> class fq_codel 110:cc parent 110:=20 >>>>>>>>>>> (dropped 10, overlimits 0 requeues 0)=20 >>>>>>>>>>> backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>>>>>>> deficit -198 count 1 lastcount 1 ldelay 2.3ms >>>>>>>>>>> class fq_codel 110:1d9 parent 110:=20 >>>>>>>>>>> (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)=20 >>>>>>>>>>> backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>>>>>>> deficit 226 count 0 lastcount 0 ldelay 2us >>>>>>>>>>> class fq_codel 110:1de parent 110:=20 >>>>>>>>>>> (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)=20 >>>>>>>>>>> backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>>>>>>> deficit 238 count 0 lastcount 0 ldelay 10us >>>>>>>>>>> class fq_codel 110:345 parent 110:=20 >>>>>>>>>>> (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)=20 >>>>>>>>>>> backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>>>>>>> deficit 226 count 0 lastcount 0 delay 9us >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> I changed the hard coded values in /usr/lib/aqm/functions.sh = to arbitrary values, rebooted and obtained the same results. Both = reflect the 7000kbit/s down and 700kbit/s up I entered in the window. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> What is the line rate as read out from the del modem or = specified in your contract? >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Speedtest.net shows the rate as circa 8.7 megabits/s down, 1 = megabit/s up. Line has radio frequency interference from unidentified = sources.. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> So it looks like specify a generous reserve for the = shaper. Can you log into your modem and get the current line rates? The = rf interference, is it constant (if you can get nice SNR per sub carrier = or even ust bit loading per frequency plots) that is does it only affect = the same frequencies or does it change? (I ask, because temporary = interference might reduce the effective line rate, potentially moving = the buffer back into the del modem) >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> Target snr upped to 12 deciBel. Line can sustain 10 = megabits/s with repeated loss of sync.at lower snr. Contract is for 'up = to 20megabits/s'. =20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> So ADSL2+ as you even mentioned it before. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> 850 metres from exchange. Line length circa 1.2km. >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> I ticked the adsl box. Altering the value in functions.sh = and unticking the box, with reboot, produced the same outcome. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> This nicely shows I screwed up my testing (and or forgot = to reboot between changes). Or I did try too high a data rate (initially = 97% of the raw link rate) >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> traceroute google.com >>>>>>>>>>> traceroute: Warning: google.com has multiple addresses; = using 173.194.41.128 >>>>>>>>>>> traceroute to google.com (173.194.41.128), 64 hops max, 52 = byte packets >>>>>>>>>>> 1 172.30.42.1 (172.30.42.1) 0.631 ms 0.323 ms 0.249 ms >>>>>>>>>>> 2 * * * >>>>>>>>>>> 3 10.1.3.234 (10.1.3.234) 22.596 ms 21.241 ms 22.392 ms >>>>>>>>>>> 4 * 10.1.3.214 (10.1.3.214) 27.018 ms 26.703 ms >>>>>>>>>>> 5 10.1.4.249 (10.1.4.249) 29.682 ms 28.923 ms 27.479 ms >>>>>>>>>>> 6 * * * >>>>>>>>>>> 7 * 209.85.252.186 (209.85.252.186) 30.379 ms * >>>>>>>>>>> 8 72.14.238.55 (72.14.238.55) 25.745 ms 25.345 ms 25.594 = ms >>>>>>>>>>> 9 lhr08s03-in-f0.1e100.net (173.194.41.128) 27.566 ms = 27.390 ms 27.663 ms >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> mtr shows packet losses at hops 2-5=20 >>>>>>>>>>> 10.1.3.* are Internet Watch Foundation. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> This looks pretty reasonable for an adsl link (could be = way worse with higher interleaving) >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> Netalyzr was used. I appreciate it is an imperfect metric. >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> OK. Like the ping train idea. Cannot get netperf 2.6.0 to = build on Ubuntu 12.04 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> So I typically run a 1000 count ping against the nearest = host that is on the other side of the DSL link that also gives = consistent ping RTTs without load. Then I start my test loads like = saturating the upload with a long runnig TCP transfer and opening 99 = media heavy tabs in a browser (I really should try the chrome benchmark = that Dave is using). And the I simply look through the ping statistic = results, typically I look at the maximum, and at the standard deviation = to get a handle on how tight the shaper held latency under control. (If = I should get netperf-wrapper to work under Macosx I will try to use that = for testing, but it does not even install, and if I get past that hurdle = I will have to adjust for the differences between Gnu ping and BSD = ping). >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>> Best Regards >>>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> Well, I ran into this issue before. In short netalyzr's = worst case delay numbers do not seem to reflect how an fq_codelled = connection feels. =20 >>>>>>>>>> Netalyzr uses an unresponsive UDP probe to force the = bottleneck router's buffers to fill up; with unresponsiveness being a = property no sane flow over the intent should exhibit. Codel/fq_codel is = tailored for responsive flows and will only gradually increase its drop = frequency so responsive TCP flows will be controlled gently and keep = link utilization high. Given enough time codel will also rein in an = unresponsive flows. But netalyzr's probe duration is too short for that = to be happening during netalyzr's runtime. >>>>>>>>>> Fq_codel in my experience does a decent job at keeping = interactivity high even with competing traffic like netalyzr (so turn a = ping train against say 10.1.3.234 while netalyzr runs or try = netperf-wrapper in addition).=20 >>>>>>>>>> So netalyzr really probes the worst case buffer depth against = basically a "denial of service" type of load; I am not fully sure what = the expectancy on the disc here should be. >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>> best >>>>>>>>>> Sebastian >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> On 31 Jul 2013, at 21:38, Sebastian Moeller = wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>>> tc -s -d class show dev ge00 >>>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>>>>>>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >>>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >>>>>>>>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>>>>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >>>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >>>>>>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >>>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >>>>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >>>>=20 >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >=20 --Apple-Mail=_473A8843-D62A-444E-9CC6-598A14990543 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 moeller0@gmx.de> wrote:
Hi = Fred,

this got a bit longish so I took the liberty to reduce the = quoted text a bit


On Aug 5, 2013, at 12:47 , Fred Stratton = <fredstratton@imap.cc> = wrote:

[snipp]

You = are using 2 routers in series. I have disabled all routing functions on = the 2wire. It is transparent to the network.

Which is = exactly the situation I faced with the cable modem before; my = cerowrt-router was provisioned with an IP address through the bridged = cable-modem via DHCP, but I still could access the modem's 192.168.100.1 = with out any configuration required. I know there is some openwork = information (http:/= /wiki.openwrt.org/doc/howto/access.modem.through.nat) that makes it = look like one needs to do more involved fiddling with the firewall, but = that turned out not to be required with cerowrt. I do not know how that = works if one runs a pppoe client on cerowrt though and I left cerowrt's = ip address assignment in place. (My hunch is that since cerowrt leaves = the typical 192.168.N.N ranges alone the whole issue gets reduced to a = simple routing issue=85 and since Dave takes care that cero works well = as secondary (test) router in a typical home situation, I guess routing = 192.168.N.N is well with in cerowrt's scope)
But, I = guess you tried that already and it still does not work. Would be = interesting to learn why=85

The difference is that = you have the ISP gateway as a primary device issuing a DHCP address to = the cerowrt secondary router. The 2 devices are then obviously on the = same ipv4 subnet.

I use the 2700 transparently. DHCP is turned = off. If I turn it on, I have to use the device in DMZ mode with its = firewall on, which I do not want to = do.

Sorry, to keep harping on this, = but this is pretty close to what I did with the cable modem. As I said I = had it working with a similar setup as you have, cerowrt was assigned a = public IP (75.142.58.156) address by the cable-ISPs dhcp server while = the modems configuration interface was running on the "private" = 192.168.100.1. So the modem and cero were decidedly not on the same IP = subnet, but still I could connect to it without needing to change = anything. Initially, before I found out that it works out of the box I = had defined an alias IP address on the wan interface of (WAN2CABLEMODEM = ipv4-address: = 192.168.100.2; ipv4-netmask: = 255.255.255.0). But it turned out that this was not necessary as = of cerowrt 3.3.8-17 I did not need to do this any more, accessing the = cable modem just worked by directing a browser to = 192.168.100.1.

So, have you tried to access the = modem recently by simply directing a browser to its address? And have = you tried the same after just configuring an alias as hinted above? If = so what was the result?


I configured an alias = using uci at your prompting. It works. I can now access the = 2700.



Initially, I used the 2700 = with the tomatoUSB router attached to that, and then a router running = openWRT. This setup allowed access to the 2700, through a masquerade in = tomatoUSB.

Although ipv6 addresses were propagated throughout = the network by Barrier Breaker, ipv6 did not work, probably because of = the way radvd works in tomato.

I have never used the cerowrt as a = secondary device because of this.



[snipp]
I do not want = to use cable, which is expensive. The DOCSIS box - a custom Netgear = device - has a poor reputation.

I do not want to use fibre, = again, because when it comes here, it will be supplied by BT/, and is = traffic shaped and capped. The BT web site has 35 pages of price = increases for this year.

I will continue with = ADSL2+

I fully agree that getting = ADSL(2+) links debated and offering low latency internet access is = worthwhile as a considerable number of people simply have no other = choice available. And this is why your case is so interesting! If you = can improve the "interactivity" in your home and document the required = steps somewhere others will have an easier time.

Yes. Hopefully others using ADSL will also = participate.

best
Sebastian



Best
Sebastian



best regards
= Sebastian



On 3 Aug 2013, = at 10:38, Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> = wrote:

Hi Fred,


On Aug 1, = 2013, at 00:35 , Fred Stratton <fredstratton@imap.cc> = wrote:


On 31 Jul 2013, at 23:14, = Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> = wrote:

Hi Fred,

thanks a = lot.


On Jul 31, 2013, at 23:37 , Fred Stratton <fredstratton@imap.cc> = wrote:

tc -s -d class show dev = ge00

class htb 1:10 parent 1:1 leaf 110: prio 0 quantum 1500 rate = 700000bit ceil 700000bit burst 1599b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b cburst 1599b/1 = mpu 0b overhead 0b level 0
Sent 15809014 bytes 115190 pkt (dropped = 4733, overlimits 0 requeues 0)
rate 3616bit 3pps backlog 0b 0p = requeues 0
lended: 115190 borrowed: 0 giants: 0
tokens: 263560 = ctokens: 263560

class htb 1:1 root rate 700000bit ceil 700000bit = burst 1599b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b cburst 1599b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b level = 7
Sent 15809014 bytes 115190 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues = 0)
rate 3616bit 3pps backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
lended: 0 = borrowed: 0 giants: 0
tokens: 263560 ctokens: 263560

class = fq_codel 110:1b8 parent 110:
(dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0) =
backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
deficit 84 count 0 lastcount 0 delay = 10us



tc -s -d class show dev ifb0
class htb 1:10 = parent 1:1 leaf 110: prio 0 quantum 1500 rate 7000Kbit ceil 7000Kbit = burst 1598b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b cburst 1598b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b level = 0
Sent 192992612 bytes 168503 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues = 0)
rate 17096bit 4pps backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
lended: 168503 = borrowed: 0 giants: 0
tokens: 27454 ctokens: 27454

class htb = 1:1 root rate 7000Kbit ceil 7000Kbit burst 1598b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b = cburst 1598b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b level 7
Sent 192992612 bytes = 168503 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)
rate 17096bit 4pps = backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
lended: 0 borrowed: 0 giants: 0
tokens: = 27454 ctokens: 27454

class fq_codel 110:cc parent 110: =
(dropped 10, overlimits 0 requeues 0)
backlog 0b 0p requeues 0 =
deficit -198 count 1 lastcount 1 ldelay 2.3ms
class fq_codel = 110:1d9 parent 110:
(dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)
backlog = 0b 0p requeues 0
deficit 226 count 0 lastcount 0 ldelay 2us
class = fq_codel 110:1de parent 110:
(dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0) =
backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
deficit 238 count 0 lastcount 0 ldelay = 10us
class fq_codel 110:345 parent 110:
(dropped 0, overlimits 0 = requeues 0)
backlog 0b 0p requeues 0
deficit 226 count 0 = lastcount 0 delay 9us

I changed the hard coded values in = /usr/lib/aqm/functions.sh to arbitrary values, rebooted and obtained the = same results. Both reflect the 7000kbit/s down and 700kbit/s up I = entered in the window.

What is the line rate as read out = from the del modem or specified in your contract?

Speedtest.net shows the rate as circa = 8.7 megabits/s down, 1 megabit/s up. Line has radio frequency = interference from unidentified sources..

So it = looks like specify a generous reserve for the shaper. Can you log into = your modem and get the current line rates? The rf interference, is it = constant (if you can get nice SNR per sub carrier or even ust bit = loading per frequency plots) that is does it only affect the same = frequencies or does it change? (I ask, because temporary interference = might reduce the effective line rate, potentially moving the buffer back = into the del modem)

Target snr upped to = 12 deciBel.  Line can sustain 10 megabits/s with repeated loss of = sync.at lower snr.  Contract is for = 'up to 20megabits/s'.  

So =  ADSL2+ as you even mentioned it before.

850 metres from exchange. Line length circa = 1.2km.






I ticked the adsl box. Altering the value in functions.sh = and unticking the box, with reboot, produced the same = outcome.

This nicely shows I screwed up my = testing (and or forgot to reboot between changes). Or I did try too high = a data rate (initially 97% of the raw link rate)





traceroute google.com
traceroute: Warning: google.com has multiple addresses; using = 173.194.41.128
traceroute to google.com (173.194.41.128), 64 hops max, = 52 byte packets
1  172.30.42.1 (172.30.42.1)  0.631 ms =  0.323 ms  0.249 ms
2  * * *
3  10.1.3.234 = (10.1.3.234)  22.596 ms  21.241 ms  22.392 ms
4 =  * 10.1.3.214 (10.1.3.214)  27.018 ms  26.703 ms
5 =  10.1.4.249 (10.1.4.249)  29.682 ms  28.923 ms =  27.479 ms
6  * * *
7  * 209.85.252.186 = (209.85.252.186)  30.379 ms *
8  72.14.238.55 = (72.14.238.55)  25.745 ms  25.345 ms  25.594 ms
9 =  lhr08s03-in-f0.1e100.net = (173.194.41.128)  27.566 ms  27.390 ms  27.663 = ms

mtr shows packet losses at hops 2-5
10.1.3.* are Internet = Watch Foundation.

This looks pretty reasonable for = an adsl link (could be way worse with higher = interleaving)


Netalyzr was used. I = appreciate it is an imperfect = metric.

OK.  Like the ping train = idea. Cannot get netperf 2.6.0 to build on Ubuntu = 12.04

So I typically run a 1000 count = ping against the nearest host that is on the other side of the DSL link = that also gives consistent ping RTTs without load. Then I start my test = loads like saturating the upload with a long runnig TCP transfer and = opening 99 media heavy tabs in a browser (I really should try the chrome = benchmark that Dave is using). And the I simply look through the ping = statistic results, typically I look at the maximum, and at the standard = deviation to get a handle on how tight the shaper held latency under = control. (If I should get netperf-wrapper to work under Macosx I will = try to use that for testing, but it does not even install, and if I get = past that hurdle I will have to adjust for the differences between Gnu = ping and BSD ping).


Best Regards
= Sebastian



Well, I ran into this issue = before. In short netalyzr's worst case delay numbers do not seem to = reflect how an fq_codelled connection feels.  
Netalyzr uses an = unresponsive UDP probe to force the bottleneck router's buffers to fill = up;  with unresponsiveness being a property no sane flow over the = intent should exhibit. Codel/fq_codel is tailored for responsive flows = and will only gradually increase its drop frequency so responsive TCP = flows will be controlled gently and keep link utilization high. Given = enough time codel will also rein in an unresponsive flows. But = netalyzr's probe duration is too short for that to be happening during = netalyzr's runtime.
Fq_codel in my experience does a decent job at = keeping interactivity high even with competing traffic like netalyzr (so = turn a ping train against say 10.1.3.234 while netalyzr runs or try = netperf-wrapper  in addition).
So netalyzr really probes the = worst case buffer depth against basically a "denial of service" type of = load; I am not fully sure what the expectancy on the disc here should = be.


best
Sebastian








On 31 Jul 2013, at 21:38, = Sebastian Moeller <moeller0@gmx.de> = wrote:

tc -s -d class show dev = ge00

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