From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from na01-bn1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn1on0691.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f400:fc10::691]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "MSIT Machine Auth CA 2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1383C21F25F; Sun, 1 Mar 2015 16:08:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from BN1PR07MB950.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.141.64.148) by BN1PR07MB950.namprd07.prod.outlook.com (10.141.64.148) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.1.99.14; Mon, 2 Mar 2015 00:08:07 +0000 Received: from BN1PR07MB950.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.64.148]) by BN1PR07MB950.namprd07.prod.outlook.com ([10.141.64.148]) with mapi id 15.01.0099.004; Mon, 2 Mar 2015 00:08:07 +0000 From: Mel Beckman To: Dave Taht Thread-Topic: Bufferbloat related censorship at Virgin Media Thread-Index: AQHQVHeKGRDbRCNUd0mfy3IpXeIIG50ISyP4gAAD3gCAAAH7Jg== Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2015 00:08:07 +0000 Message-ID: <458FF796-9D09-48C3-B012-903A3EC10017@beckman.org> References: , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [2600:1012:b045:3812:d8c2:6cf0:77e7:9e0] authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:;BCL:0;PCL:0;RULEID:;SRVR:BN1PR07MB950; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(601004)(5005006); SRVR:BN1PR07MB950; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BN1PR07MB950; x-forefront-prvs: 0503FF9A3E x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10009020)(6009001)(243025005)(377454003)(51704005)(24454002)(62966003)(77156002)(92566002)(19580395003)(82746002)(19580405001)(2656002)(77096005)(102836002)(86362001)(2950100001)(2900100001)(83716003)(87936001)(15975445007)(110136001)(40100003)(46102003)(122556002)(106116001)(99286002)(76176999)(33656002)(50986999)(54356999)(36756003)(104396002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:BN1PR07MB950; H:BN1PR07MB950.namprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: beckman.org X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Mar 2015 00:08:07.3600 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d8db87f0-5834-4269-8f52-d0878d233e25 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN1PR07MB950 Cc: NANOG , "aqm@ietf.org" , "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , bloat Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Bufferbloat related censorship at Virgin Media X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Mar 2015 00:08:42 -0000 Well, with luck probably it will just bounce off their corporate hull and d= rift into the Kuiper belt.=20 Say hi to Sugar ;) -mel > On Mar 1, 2015, at 4:01 PM, "Dave Taht" wrote: >=20 >> On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 3:47 PM, Mel Beckman wrote: >> Dave, >>=20 >> I appreciate all your work on buffer bloat. It looks like you have done = quite a lot of selfless contribution. However, I don't think you're effecti= vely communicating with the people who can change things. >>=20 >> After I read what you said, here is what I would have heard as a service= provider: >>=20 >> "I am the smartest person in the room. >=20 > I am pretty close to being the smartest person in the room. That said, > people like van jacobson, eric dumazet, tom herbert, jim gettys, eric > raymond, vint cerf, dave reed, fred baker, and many, many others, > smarter than me, have also been banging this drum, politely, and > rationally, to not much effect, for 4+ years now. >=20 > google for any of those names and the word "bufferbloat". >=20 >> You better listen to me, because if you don't there will be trouble. But= you probably won't because you're too stupid. Your customers suffer becaus= e you are idiots. Listen to me! This issue is too important for me to be po= lite, or even coherent. If you can't figure out what I'm saying, do some re= search and figure it out! Plus, apologize to me! I demand it!" >=20 > Oh, banning my ip for *3 links to sane benchmarks and fixes*, > realllllly pushed me over the edge. >=20 >> Bees, honey, vinegar, etc. >=20 > I have been polite, constructive, and helpful, for four+ years. I have > worked both in the background and foreground with many companies, to > start hopefully, getting bufferbloat fixed across the entire edge of > the internet. It hasn't worked fast enough for my liking, and the last > batch of new products that claimed to fix it, didn't, and the market > is now rife with genuine lies as to whether they did or not. >=20 > So, this morning, I tried this. Sorry for the noise on these lists. > Honestly! I totally agree with your assessment of my tone, btw! but I > would rather like the cable industry in particular, to come clean, > with schedules for deployable fixes. >=20 > I am off to go fix wifi next, and I do hope that 2+ billion people in > the world - if not the isps, maybe - would like wifi to get better > also, and indeed, I spent the weekend constructively starting to > implement some of the fixes I outlined at the last 802.11 meeting I > attended. That part, on fixing wifi bufferbloat - a much harder > problem than edge bufferbloat - , is a lot of fun! For some info on > what we plan to do there, see: >=20 > http://snapon.lab.bufferbloat.net/~d/ieee802.11-sept-17-2014/11-14-1265-0= 0-0wng-More-on-Bufferbloat.pdf >=20 > So I took a break from that, reared back, and got some stuff off my chest= . >=20 > --=20 > Dave T=E4ht > Let's make wifi fast, less jittery and reliable again! >=20 > https://plus.google.com/u/0/107942175615993706558/posts/TVX3o84jjmb