From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bosmailout03.eigbox.net (bosmailout03.eigbox.net [66.96.189.3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F33F3B2A4; Sun, 8 Aug 2021 01:07:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bosmailscan07.eigbox.net ([10.20.15.7]) by bosmailout03.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1mCb1w-0003du-Jr; Sun, 08 Aug 2021 01:07:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alum.mit.edu; s=dkim; h=Sender:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc:To:From:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=EdpSaR5G7fhK6U1sb/QzzNU3gc+1NzcA00TTlG7j0wo=; b=CrgC1ghTg16V/NuQ2TIOcgaB8F OT8cK9gKulrZynzOUtK1BcjY0OC2t+YdXNfNoCK3LbZlGZ7WzsPAMno2BiIqcyEAdL1PEKaMvzots NAiW8m//yMKVgcl9ye/rRBkmCIoRqYfNdB/9fwcDTNIUOVRV8UqZKk2Zz8B7UuqfAMCbPCEGP5cO8 QfBRC9nV3OmHQ90ONVm3S9IgvPhbVRo7y3L0FZQFWapXQy3/xfXZsLGxMd//STcFtRc4c646bs+41 HfE3CQknVp9iQb8kMCcNZtBenOZEeNQavug+YpNngChj9M7njctYQVN/3iLRoTzoqeOywjlaC37ID T9GUnvKA==; Received: from [10.115.3.32] (helo=bosimpout12) by bosmailscan07.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1mCb1w-0003DM-Bx; Sun, 08 Aug 2021 01:07:24 -0400 Received: from bosauthsmtp17.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.20.18.17]) by bosimpout12 with id et7M250070N5uqq01t7QDE; Sun, 08 Aug 2021 01:07:24 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=d4VuNSrE c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=f4kFLigMKr8AH7rIJ//qJA==:117 a=x+7tlP9+fMpTIVJEmcsKvw==:17 a=MhDmnRu9jo8A:10 a=Wo7qeYC63mUA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=kurRqvosAAAA:8 a=vnREMb7VAAAA:8 a=YFxKG3qYSPYyhrXa8CUA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=ep-1REjJ53oY9iy638UA:9 a=_JJLYtIFgNr7T-jv:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=kbxRQ_lfPIoQnHsAj2-A:22 Received: from c-73-222-32-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([73.222.32.85]:62870 helo=SRA6) by bosauthsmtp17.eigbox.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1mCb1s-0007Wb-TR; Sun, 08 Aug 2021 01:07:21 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Dick Roy" To: "'Bob McMahon'" , "'Leonard Kleinrock'" Cc: , "'Make-Wifi-fast'" , "'Cake List'" , , "'cerowrt-devel'" , "'bloat'" References: <1625188609.32718319@apps.rackspace.com> <989de0c1-e06c-cda9-ebe6-1f33df8a4c24@candelatech.com> <1625773080.94974089@apps.rackspace.com> <8677F5C4-1893-4A61-A13C-3C8BE17CB789@cs.ucla.edu> In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 22:07:10 -0700 Organization: SRA Message-ID: <4F6EFB347C08475A9F53B24E0D8BEAE2@SRA6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_042C_01D78BD8.98096BB0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AdeLuSXLoB3QE7ijRwazGNR+Tg5yUQAWbdqw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE X-EN-UserInfo: f809475445fb8041985048e338e1a001:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27 X-EN-AuthUser: dickroy@intellicommunications.com Sender: "Dick Roy" X-EN-OrigIP: 73.222.32.85 X-EN-OrigHost: c-73-222-32-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 09 Aug 2021 13:18:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2021 05:07:25 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_042C_01D78BD8.98096BB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit _____ From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of Bob McMahon Sent: Monday, August 2, 2021 6:24 PM To: Leonard Kleinrock Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net; Make-Wifi-fast; Cake List; codel@lists.bufferbloat.net; cerowrt-devel; bloat Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cerowrt-devel] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board I found the following talk relevant to distances between all the nodes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNoUcQTCxiM Distance is an abstract idea but applies to energy into a node as well as phylogenetic trees. It's the same problem, i.e. fitting a distance matrix using some sort of tree. I've found the five branch tree works well for four nodes. [RR] These trees are means for approximating a higher dimensional real-world problem with a lower dimensional structure. You may be doing this to save hardware when trying to cable up some complex test scenarios, however I'm wondering why? Why not just put the STAs in the lab and turn them on rather than cabling them? Bob On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 5:37 PM Leonard Kleinrock wrote: These cases are what my student, Fouad Tobagi and I called the Hidden Terminal Problem (with the Busy Tone solution) back in 1975. Len > On Aug 2, 2021, at 4:16 PM, David Lang wrote: > > If you are going to setup a test environment for wifi, you need to include the ability to make a fe cases that only happen with RF, not with wired networks and are commonly overlooked > > 1. station A can hear station B and C but they cannot hear each other > 2. station A can hear station B but station B cannot hear station A 3. station A can hear that station B is transmitting, but not with a strong enough signal to decode the signal (yes in theory you can work around interference, but in practice interference is still a real thing) > > David Lang > This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy laws, or otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please return the e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and destroy any printed copy of it. ------=_NextPart_000_042C_01D78BD8.98096BB0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 

From: = Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of Bob McMahon
Sent: Monday, August 2, = 2021 6:24 PM
To: Leonard Kleinrock
Cc: = starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net; Make-Wifi-fast; Cake List; codel@lists.bufferbloat.net; cerowrt-devel; = bloat
Subject: Re: [Starlink] = [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cerowrt-devel] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop = CFP for the internet architecture board

 

I found the following talk relevant to distances between all the nodes.  https://www.youtub= e.com/watch?v=3DPNoUcQTCxiM

Distance is an abstract idea but applies to energy into a node as well = as phylogenetic trees. It's the same problem, i.e. fitting a distance = matrix using some sort of tree. I've found the five branch tree works well for four = nodes.

[RR] These trees are means for approximating a higher dimensional real-world problem with a lower dimensional structure. =  You may be doing this to save hardware when trying to cable up some complex test = scenarios, however I’m wondering why?  Why not just put the STAs in the = lab and turn them on rather than cabling them?



Bob 

 

On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 5:37 PM Leonard Kleinrock <lk@cs.ucla.edu> = wrote:

These cases = are what my student, Fouad Tobagi and I called the Hidden Terminal Problem (with the = Busy Tone solution) back in 1975.

Len


> On Aug 2, 2021, at 4:16 PM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:
>
> If you are going to setup a test environment for wifi, you need to = include the ability to make a fe cases that only happen with RF, not with wired networks and are commonly overlooked
>
> 1. station A can hear station B and C but they cannot hear each = other
> 2. station A can hear station B but station B cannot hear station A = 3. station A can hear that station B is transmitting, but not with a strong = enough signal to decode the signal (yes in theory you can work around = interference, but in practice interference is still a real thing)
>
> David Lang
>


This electronic communication and the information and any files transmitted = with it, or attached to it, are confidential and are intended solely for the use = of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed and may contain information = that is confidential, legally privileged, protected by privacy laws, or = otherwise restricted from disclosure to anyone else. If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering the e-mail to the = intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, copying, distributing, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is = strictly prohibited. If you received this e-mail in error, please return the = e-mail to the sender, delete it from your computer, and destroy any printed copy = of it.

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