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[24.218.176.94]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id e2sm6839008qap.15.2012.06.12.19.29.01 (version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:29:02 -0700 (PDT) Sender: Jim Gettys Message-ID: <4FD7FAEA.80500@freedesktop.org> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 22:28:58 -0400 From: Jim Gettys Organization: Bell Labs User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: dpreed@reed.com References: <4FD7E443.7000304@gmail.com> <4FD7EFC2.4010609@freedesktop.org> <1339554171.637719702@apps.rackspace.com> In-Reply-To: <1339554171.637719702@apps.rackspace.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] making cerowrt chattier X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 02:29:19 -0000 On 06/12/2012 10:22 PM, dpreed@reed.com wrote: > > I have an awkward worry that the functionality here is expanding to > fill all possible space on the machine, so it is less a router than a > complete "home appliance". > > > > On a machine that has almost no internal isolation capabilities, > lurking potential alignment bugs whenever the kernel is updated by the > x86 maintainers, vulnerable to the first compromised service, it may > be a bit risky to load on to the system every app except the kitchen sink. > > > > My personal bias would be to make a darn good router, and leave the > other stuff entirely out of the picture. > I mostly agree with you, particularly when it comes to running a chat server. But we've identified a number of situations where having the router be able to inform you of goings ons/events is needed. One other low tech solution is sending email, but you also have a configuration problem then (as you will for a chat service too, of course, unless you run via multicast, and I doubt if anything but a Linux system will receive those without fuss). That's why I sent a pointer to telepathy; it allows you to send messages to a bunch of different back ends, and stays out of the server business. And it's being used on embedded systems (though I don't know if they go as small as what a typical home router is today). - Jim > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- On > From: "Jim Gettys" > Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 9:41pm > To: "Robert Bradley" > Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] making cerowrt chattier > > On 06/12/2012 08:52 PM, Robert Bradley wrote: > > On 12/06/12 14:10, Dave Taht wrote: > >> Now, I've implemented a tiny jabber server in my current builds and am > >> looking into javascript based chat servers that I could incorporate > >> into the introductory web page, which could be used for notices of > >> this sort, and jabber users could also merely subscribe to notices > >> from the router so that they get chat notices when something is going > >> wrong - "upgrade needed", "we are under a syn attack", "Earthquake", > >> "out of memory", etc. I haven't found a lightweight version of > >> sendxmpp yet, and have never been fond of centralized chat services in > >> the first place (the venerable "talk" protocol has no ipv6 > >> implementation, I note) , so perhaps there's a better standard or > >> system I can use that is more aggressively p2p/distributed? I have > >> seen chat demonstrated over ccnx, but don't know anything > >> about the implementation. > >> > >> ejabberd is NOT lightweight but supports muc and other services. > > > > ejabberd is probably a bit extreme for this unless you want to add > > more services, but I think simple broadcasts could actually be done > > via the Bonjour variant of XMPP > > (http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0174.html). I've no idea if a > > command-line client exists for that, though, and my attempts to send a > > basic message using netcat and Empathy failed badly. Maybe I need to > > publish more services with Avahi? > > > >> > >> There is also the possibility of a lightweight email tool or the > >> winpopup utility for samba. > >> > > > > Winpopup might work, but is generally disabled on the Windows side > > these days (since SP2?) thanks to Messenger service spam. > > > Hmmm.... I guess I should excavate a bit of stuff out of my memory. > > Not clear to me that the home router should normally do a chat server; > you certainly don't want ejabberd (which is written in erlang, and will > certainly have a ton of funny dependencies) even if you do. Openfire is > likely a lot smaller, if you do; but I haven't looked. There are a > bunch of other xmpp servers around, but ejabberd and openfire are the > most serious I found (and may be overkill) when I went looking 3 years > ago. Having been badly burned by ejabberd, I'd stay away from it, even > if it is small (which it isn't, at least in RAM footprint), if only > because fixing bugs in erlang has an "interesting" learning curve.... > > More interesting may be to look at the telepathy library, which provides > pluggable back ends to a ton of different chat systems, and just look > into being able to have the router use whatever server the user prefers > (which might be on the router, if we find a small one that is suitable. > > You'll find telepathy here: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ > > It's too late tonight to dig into it at all. > - Jim > > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >