From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-qe0-f42.google.com (mail-qe0-f42.google.com [209.85.128.42]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1E047202102; Sat, 2 Mar 2013 05:27:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qe0-f42.google.com with SMTP id f6so2980004qej.15 for ; Sat, 02 Mar 2013 05:27:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=x-received:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc :subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=FPMiRWvakIngambxugw8l5RD1EvHlbrROou7xmYjDxQ=; b=sDbsxkrt/FtMiB1DIp53MfN7cOZdfefZ61sFD8UQCGXRo+8QV0RQNAOQEoM7b94uNS QWwT0rVNX+NWxpY8tIlscBgR+e+l25wRvpe+PgvFySpvZSwtmI8BhQJbDEcI25spXR7R A2+CF726OcYn4jld0O2qIFWmvkFTzyRFLR2sMcvy/XZCl+ng14uUJjrnThtRKYAPBxpK DzVx7PwxQPOrlFdqBluvDwfnEGLsF9zafhY9jhIMBP5hLx3JA8F87IYtAfLfeXIBdvpf 6Drj6q5asY4/tGXm4PE+IzEjasevk3W1sd7QHZpIKeUSHsADpjJgQFw0m36T3t7rJdcU 6TDg== X-Received: by 10.224.100.135 with SMTP id y7mr19797871qan.28.1362230850038; Sat, 02 Mar 2013 05:27:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from wastrel.home.lan (d192-24-251-5.try.wideopenwest.com. [24.192.5.251]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id z9sm25762946qae.5.2013.03.02.05.27.28 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 02 Mar 2013 05:27:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <5131FE40.5030809@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2013 08:27:28 -0500 From: William Allen Simpson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130216 Thunderbird/17.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ketan Kulkarni References: <1362077845.101114942@apps.rackspace.com> <1362152412.065117928@apps.rackspace.com> <1362155228.00438500@apps.rackspace.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , bloat Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Google working on experimental 3.8 Linux kernel for Android X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2013 13:27:31 -0000 On 3/1/13 10:39 PM, Ketan Kulkarni wrote: > Consider from end-user perspective, getting a voice call while surfing/downloading on 2G/3G interrupts all the download and it is annoying. Ummm, this isn't entirely accurate. When Karn and I designed CDMA IS-99 circa '93 -'94 with data in the control channel, data never stopped during voice calls. Maybe some versions of 2G/3G couldn't do that, but better versions.... ;-) > Similarly going ahead we might very well have handoff from wifi to LTE - why not? > Agreed. But again, we've known how to do soft hand-off for a long time. > On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 at 9:57 PM, > wrote: > This is why "more buffering is better" continues to be the law of the land - the spec is defined to be "no lost packets under load". I'm sure that the primary measure under load for RRUL will be "no lost packets" by the time it gets to field > engineers in the form of "specs" - because that's what they've *always* been told, and they will disregard any changes as "typos". > We've had this problem with bell-heads forever. Even back in the days with heavy packet loss at MAE-East, bell-heads would continue to insist that any packet loss was an alarm condition. Even after PPP LQM showed they mangled bits and bytes on even their most prized T3 links (and had been lying to the FCC about uptime for decades), we never could shake off the syndrome. It's the "every bit is sacred" mentality.