From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from nm27.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com (nm27.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com [98.138.90.90]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8CF8821F41F for ; Sat, 21 Mar 2015 04:35:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1426937712; bh=pJn6xlY8cr8ldO/yXs0xH9JDUXR6/enHkcDRvVwdOQg=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=mV/0Yp7uOB5y/obh+l0pYqWkTVAlwJcQ5U7Vfk90Pkb8sqEGLHjo8CkEWHOenHnpmg6u7CNKYY1kGEN2qV6bCJGWFcsFjYt8fJrImxdlY7/37mzBhaIkC/KXj66Xi0z3w+Sllpx2JW6Y8LLHoJ6rJK0OlHnT4lb6C7bZLNwkZVHCH4GxsVPlzXPWAHq0OS3NI5N5QbDcB6tM4QX6TBdsF5K9vtEfANA4WFRoEKknCORpraC6f8KTiv1F//4uTiwQ79gqSX8Bi6m4DeJDz83vGGiSo22AV9Kt3cNMFxMAQAlSPmTGCHrLjVM7txgMoTGl86gg4AIe9k8uFmv3TInK1A== Received: from [98.138.100.114] by nm27.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2015 11:35:12 -0000 Received: from [98.138.89.234] by tm105.bullet.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2015 11:35:12 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1049.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 21 Mar 2015 11:35:11 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 983834.77458.bm@omp1049.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: I.vB36MVM1knUu4zM3DzSt4lyQLTQHaea.w9N.1wwJaB__oM5pBmdMh3T4XBg6Y KIZMk6vN4Yi8spqWqeP74fSGTgpSx2c2DThnrY78GL.LsS2Xdw3gUhddPC2v9LgpjX9bPfJzhNzW N.ag2s7.o7VuWRwF_99nkhK.mYfdux96IKMThPLmy6SesWK3gcdVWJTsq0t31RdqoIa16b50HzhY zkHhgHqb.5GQjKnGlJ7q7ccS7C3UYvHiYh0myfQM4By5DaaqBpqb8N4dO.qKSMhZw8Q7pNmhTidg LUGelfqjg6qdxSKuTdf8vbnKTEXs..xf0lmz_lULT.gEWDf3ipRDreLL3g4LgNZhXJKvhYd2jOkY npTS5Bh9Qx5Bl3xYd14mdByi7ctpJ4JreFfGN9O0s.18mlO1HiZPilkNUhyo20oW4FyhPd4rmQxi vDcN3bJq7LyBz0OmB3rFHye2jYa75ocvpzuCa2hCsP2obYFJ92ot6AJNd9P.UtoldfOoxDxJeWWo yrg9LErwt4GzDQJVlyFIdIeTgU8RmXo1cPKm82o9UQu63_8HVbSXBbB8Dr8c9mhi1UKOcvdDgZ98 qBubpo0XsV6c- Received: by 98.138.105.209; Sat, 21 Mar 2015 11:35:11 +0000 Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 11:35:11 +0000 (UTC) From: Alex Burr To: "Bill Ver Steeg (versteb)" , Jonathan Morton Message-ID: <747306302.1875692.1426937711048.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1875691_2103931191.1426937711040" Cc: "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , bloat Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] marketing #102 - giving netperf-wrapper a better name? X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list Reply-To: Alex Burr List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2015 11:35:42 -0000 ------=_Part_1875691_2103931191.1426937711040 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think we need something that's comprehensible as quickly as possible. I'm= no graphic designer, but how about this: https://imgrush.com/0oPGJ8VHluFy.png | =C2=A0 | | =C2=A0 | | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | =C2=A0 | | | | | | View on imgrush.com | Preview by Yahoo | | | | =C2=A0 | I used the word 'delay' as it is more familiar than latency. The number is = illustrated by a picture of a physical queue; hopefully everyone can identi= fy it instantly, and knows that a longer one is worse. The eye supposed to = be drawn to the figure at the back of the queue to emphasise this. I just made this manually in inkscape, but it should not be too hard to aut= omate the generation of a graphic like this. Alex=20 On Friday, March 20, 2015 9:08 PM, Bill Ver Steeg (versteb) wrote: =20 =20 I was kidding about "sucks-less", and forgot the smiley in my initial note= . We do need a metric with an end-user-friendly name, though. Most people und= erstand "lag", and understand that lower numbers are better. You could prob= ably explain "lag-while-loaded" to most users (particularly people who care= , like gamers) in a manner that got the point across. Bvs -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Morton [mailto:chromatix99@gmail.com]=20 Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 4:26 PM To: Bill Ver Steeg (versteb) Cc: R=C3=A9mi Cardona; bloat; cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Bloat] marketing #102 - giving netperf-wrapper a better name? > On 20 Mar, 2015, at 22:08, Bill Ver Steeg (versteb) w= rote: >=20 > We should call the metric "sucks-less". As in "Box A sucks less than Box = B", or "Box C scored a 17 on the sucks less test". I suspect real marketing drones would get nervous at a negative-sounding na= me. My idea - which I=E2=80=99ve floated in the past, more than once - is that = the metric should be =E2=80=9Cresponsiveness=E2=80=9D, measured in Hertz.= =C2=A0 The baseline standard would be 10Hz, corresponding to a dumb 100ms b= uffer.=C2=A0 Get down into the single-digit millisecond range, as fq_codel = does, and the Responsiveness goes up above 100Hz, approaching 1000Hz. Crucially, that=E2=80=99s a positive sort of term, as well as trending towa= rds bigger numbers with actual improvements in performance, and is thus mor= e potentially marketable. - Jonathan Morton _______________________________________________ Bloat mailing list Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat =20 ------=_Part_1875691_2103931191.1426937711040 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I thi= nk we need something that's comprehensible as quickly as possible. I'm no g= raphic designer, but how about this:


I used the = word 'delay' as it is more familiar than latency. The number is illustrated= by a picture of a physical queue; hopefully everyone can identify it insta= ntly, and knows that a longer one is worse. The eye supposed to be drawn to= the figure at the back of the queue to emphasise this.

I just made this manually in inkscape, b= ut it should not be too hard to automate the generation of a graphic like t= his.

Alex


On Friday, March 20, 2015 9:08 P= M, Bill Ver Steeg (versteb) <versteb@cisco.com> wrote:


I was kidding about "sucks-less", and forgot the smiley in my= initial note.

We do need a metric wit= h an end-user-friendly name, though. Most people understand "lag", and unde= rstand that lower numbers are better. You could probably explain "lag-while= -loaded" to most users (particularly people who care, like gamers) in a man= ner that got the point across.

Bvs


-----Original Message-----
From:= Jonathan Morton [mailto:chromatix99@gmail.com] <= br clear=3D"none">Sent: Friday, March 20, 2015 4:26 PM
To= : Bill Ver Steeg (versteb)
Cc: R=C3=A9mi Cardona; bloat; = cerowrt-devel@lists.buffe= rbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Bloat] marketing #102 - givi= ng netperf-wrapper a better name?


> On 20 Mar, 2015, at 22:08, Bill Ver Steeg (versteb) <= ;versteb@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> We should call the metric "sucks-less". As in "Box A su= cks less than Box B", or "Box C scored a 17 on the sucks less test".

I suspect real marketing drones would get ne= rvous at a negative-sounding name.

My = idea - which I=E2=80=99ve floated in the past, more than once - is that the= metric should be =E2=80=9Cresponsiveness=E2=80=9D, measured in Hertz. = ; The baseline standard would be 10Hz, corresponding to a dumb 100ms buffer= .  Get down into the single-digit millisecond range, as fq_codel does,= and the Responsiveness goes up above 100Hz, approaching 1000Hz.

Crucially, that=E2=80=99s a positive sort of t= erm, as well as trending towards bigger numbers with actual improvements in= performance, and is thus more potentially marketable.
- Jonathan Morton

__= _____________________________________________
Bloat maili= ng list
Bloat@lists.buf= ferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat= .net/listinfo/bloat


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