From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from out1-smtp.messagingengine.com (out1-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.25]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AC5DF201263 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 06:04:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.43]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id B917520D92; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 09:03:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from frontend1 ([10.202.2.160]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Sun, 04 Aug 2013 09:03:59 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=imap.cc; h= content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; s=mesmtp; bh=9n7SI/zd7hMWtdNFXRd4UOq77LE=; b=QYO0+Nijde3PCvK3UMpJWlw0XYqw 8Qc8PH3fE3JF2IA327czFiWgqJbcclm8y5pxBqnt77VlYmjnQ6iT66tvRcz2Vx9O yJTyZ4drJUvTIXd41d+6LkARWgA9SSQ87Fy+/iFlHS9LdbuARwilquuNj4F0IlA+ 5loJqiNhSWz/FQY= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from :in-reply-to:date:content-transfer-encoding:message-id :references:to; s=smtpout; bh=9n7SI/zd7hMWtdNFXRd4UOq77LE=; b=uW vLfOcQlRyH5tyeGgkx3st5eNK+ZjUOZotNvSt5UGTs8HcTFkkR2TJghtqmeTbkaA zwSEGjI5kV2WJiXvUOz9nAgnw2RqEc2LV2RrQVwbtKMQ7Pkohy/IB6wkWS0wSPXs fJ5W4zMGmmpV6KQU+lFWYk0D8nsE0lgemayW4y43w= X-Sasl-enc: AqovLOIFK4FRkTRY84CG+5dIKESumK+lvPijanMVaepM 1375621439 Received: from [172.30.42.15] (unknown [188.221.232.223]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 0BD38C00E80 for ; Sun, 4 Aug 2013 09:03:58 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.5 \(1508\)) From: Fred Stratton In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2013 14:03:56 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <77C6BBFC-EAB4-4184-8082-0A62FC3E2178@imap.cc> References: <3A95A665-3348-44F5-84E8-E59720086E09@imap.cc> <4247DD8C-E057-4CBE-87EA-2055A4D93469@imap.cc> <6DB27AF3-82FB-4959-BDCD-A80B66EE750C@imap.cc> <7AA8F2EC-633F-4DF6-86D1-73B7BAB6DDB7@gmx.de> <764514D8-6F52-48AB-9D57-5359DCE2E639@imap.cc> <94CA76B3-44B9-41E8-9893-864BBEEFB70D@gmx.de> <12AD8B7E-FC87-4E9C-A31B-E6BABD19643E@imap.cc> To: "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1508) Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] cerowrt-3.10.2-1 dev release + owamp X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Aug 2013 13:04:01 -0000 On 3 Aug 2013, at 21:53, Sebastian Moeller wrote: > Hi Fread, >=20 >=20 > On Aug 3, 2013, at 12:36 , Fred Stratton wrote: >=20 >> I cannot currently access the gateway device.=20 >>=20 >> AFAIK, Cerowrt does not allow setting up a masquerade, and it is = physically difficult to access. I wish I could have a masquerade. The = device has a fixed IP address of 192.168.1.254. >=20 > Interestingly, I can access my DSL-router on https://192.168.2.1 = through cerowrt without any required configuration or firewall changes = (and that also worked with 102.168.100.1 to the cable modem I used = before). Have you recently tried this again? I do not run the required = PPPOE client on cerowrt, but on the DSL-router. You are using 2 routers in series. I have disabled all routing functions = on the 2wire. It is transparent to the network. Openwrt has a masquerade function, which has been removed. There is no = doubt a good reason for this. >=20 >>=20 >> The target snr is set high, so the device does not retrain for = months, so the line speed remains constant. The ISP I use has been sold = by Telefonica to Sky, who use a fixed 7.5 target snr, so this stability = may go. I may change ISPs to overcome this. >>=20 >> The device is a bridged 2wire 2700, which provides a frequency graph. = This looked normal. >>=20 >> When I used a Broadcom based router, and TomatoUSB -shibby - I could = access the device and run RouterStats in a wine bottle. The interference = occurs at 0700 and 0200 every day. I have had the street lights = serviced. Chain saws are a problem. Aldi or Lidl sell cheap chain saws = which are not well suppressed electrically and cause random = interference. >>=20 >> I use a VDSL grade NTE >=20 > Ah, in Germany XDSL capable modems (i.e. VDSL and ADSL) have a = bad reputation for ADSL lines (think Jack of all trades, master of none) = no idea whether that is deserved though=85 I am referring to the network termination wall plate, which contains rf = chokes which function like the coil craft device. >=20 >> , with large line chokes, shielded cables. and ferrite rings on the = input phone line. >=20 > I guess this is for common mode rejection? When I had issues = with a borderline del link in the past the coil craft TRF-r11 = (http://www.coilcraft.com/pdf_viewer/showpdf.cfm?f=3Dpdf_store:modjack.pdf= ) worked well for me. Then again ideally one would include the common = mode chokes to all lines going into the modem (including ethernet and = power). >=20 >> All phones are DECT. >>=20 >> The problem with a liberal Telecoms market is that there is only one = Wholesale provider, OpenReach. They will not investigate anything other = than voice line faults. The phone lines and cabinets are over 60 years = old. >=20 > Well, sure but that is not going to change any time soon (as = much as I think everybody should be connected by optic fiber). = Admittedly I have soft spot in my heart for keeping infrastructure = operating well past beyond its prime :)=20 >=20 >>=20 >> I am sure the 2700 is part of the problem. However other choices, = like a Thomson TG585v7, are associated with similar uplink delays. >=20 > How do you measure the uplink delay? Oh I just remembered you = had issues with getting netsurf 2.6 to work on ubuntu 12.4? Because Toke = (https://github.com/tohojo/netperf-wrapper) has prepared nice packages = of netsur-wrapper for ubuntu that include netsurf, so maybe you could = try netsurf-wrapper to test your latencies. (One caveat, as Dave noticed = in ubuntu 12.4 the saved plots from netsurf-wrapper suffer from a = suboptimal python matplotlib) >=20 >> and does not hold the line as well. despite its Broadcom SoC - the = DSLAM is an Ericsson, which returns BRCM. >>=20 >> I mention all this on list not just to answer your question, but to = describe a fairly typical situation. The majority of users obtain = internet service over a land line., these days via ASDL2+. I have a = liberal telecoms market, can swap around the equipment II have attached = to a typical phone line perfectly legally to optimise the signal I = receive. Boxes like the 2wire and Thomson TG585v7 are what ISPs provide. = =20 >> Cerowrt should at some point allow the ADSL user to surf the web and = download at the same time. =20 >=20 > I know that this is not going to help you, but my experience is = that once I hooked up my cerowrt (wndr3700) to one of the internal = ethernet ports of my ISP supplied (and remotely administered) = DSL-router-modem-combo and switched all my machines to connect to cero = networks, the internet got a whole lot more useable again immediately. = Streaming and downloading and browsing the web got possible again once = the ISP's router was relieved of being the bottleneck :) I have, in effect, done this. >=20 > best regards > Sebastian >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On 3 Aug 2013, at 10:38, Sebastian Moeller wrote: >>=20 >>> Hi Fred, >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On Aug 1, 2013, at 00:35 , Fred Stratton = wrote: >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> On 31 Jul 2013, at 23:14, Sebastian Moeller = wrote: >>>>=20 >>>>> Hi Fred, >>>>>=20 >>>>> thanks a lot. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> On Jul 31, 2013, at 23:37 , Fred Stratton = wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>> tc -s -d class show dev ge00 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> class htb 1:10 parent 1:1 leaf 110: prio 0 quantum 1500 rate = 700000bit ceil 700000bit burst 1599b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b cburst 1599b/1 = mpu 0b overhead 0b level 0=20 >>>>>> Sent 15809014 bytes 115190 pkt (dropped 4733, overlimits 0 = requeues 0)=20 >>>>>> rate 3616bit 3pps backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>> lended: 115190 borrowed: 0 giants: 0 >>>>>> tokens: 263560 ctokens: 263560 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> class htb 1:1 root rate 700000bit ceil 700000bit burst 1599b/1 = mpu 0b overhead 0b cburst 1599b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b level 7=20 >>>>>> Sent 15809014 bytes 115190 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues = 0)=20 >>>>>> rate 3616bit 3pps backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>> lended: 0 borrowed: 0 giants: 0 >>>>>> tokens: 263560 ctokens: 263560 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> class fq_codel 110:1b8 parent 110:=20 >>>>>> (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)=20 >>>>>> backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>> deficit 84 count 0 lastcount 0 delay 10us >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> tc -s -d class show dev ifb0 >>>>>> class htb 1:10 parent 1:1 leaf 110: prio 0 quantum 1500 rate = 7000Kbit ceil 7000Kbit burst 1598b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b cburst 1598b/1 = mpu 0b overhead 0b level 0=20 >>>>>> Sent 192992612 bytes 168503 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues = 0)=20 >>>>>> rate 17096bit 4pps backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>> lended: 168503 borrowed: 0 giants: 0 >>>>>> tokens: 27454 ctokens: 27454 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> class htb 1:1 root rate 7000Kbit ceil 7000Kbit burst 1598b/1 mpu = 0b overhead 0b cburst 1598b/1 mpu 0b overhead 0b level 7=20 >>>>>> Sent 192992612 bytes 168503 pkt (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues = 0)=20 >>>>>> rate 17096bit 4pps backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>> lended: 0 borrowed: 0 giants: 0 >>>>>> tokens: 27454 ctokens: 27454 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> class fq_codel 110:cc parent 110:=20 >>>>>> (dropped 10, overlimits 0 requeues 0)=20 >>>>>> backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>> deficit -198 count 1 lastcount 1 ldelay 2.3ms >>>>>> class fq_codel 110:1d9 parent 110:=20 >>>>>> (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)=20 >>>>>> backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>> deficit 226 count 0 lastcount 0 ldelay 2us >>>>>> class fq_codel 110:1de parent 110:=20 >>>>>> (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)=20 >>>>>> backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>> deficit 238 count 0 lastcount 0 ldelay 10us >>>>>> class fq_codel 110:345 parent 110:=20 >>>>>> (dropped 0, overlimits 0 requeues 0)=20 >>>>>> backlog 0b 0p requeues 0=20 >>>>>> deficit 226 count 0 lastcount 0 delay 9us >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> I changed the hard coded values in /usr/lib/aqm/functions.sh to = arbitrary values, rebooted and obtained the same results. Both reflect = the 7000kbit/s down and 700kbit/s up I entered in the window. >>>>>=20 >>>>> What is the line rate as read out from the del modem or = specified in your contract? >>>>=20 >>>> Speedtest.net shows the rate as circa 8.7 megabits/s down, 1 = megabit/s up. Line has radio frequency interference from unidentified = sources.. >>>=20 >>> So it looks like specify a generous reserve for the shaper. Can = you log into your modem and get the current line rates? The rf = interference, is it constant (if you can get nice SNR per sub carrier or = even ust bit loading per frequency plots) that is does it only affect = the same frequencies or does it change? (I ask, because temporary = interference might reduce the effective line rate, potentially moving = the buffer back into the del modem) >>>=20 >>>> Target snr upped to 12 deciBel. Line can sustain 10 megabits/s = with repeated loss of sync.at lower snr. Contract is for 'up to = 20megabits/s'. =20 >>>=20 >>> So ADSL2+ as you even mentioned it before. >>>=20 >>>> 850 metres from exchange. Line length circa 1.2km. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>> I ticked the adsl box. Altering the value in functions.sh and = unticking the box, with reboot, produced the same outcome. >>>>>=20 >>>>> This nicely shows I screwed up my testing (and or forgot to = reboot between changes). Or I did try too high a data rate (initially = 97% of the raw link rate) >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> traceroute google.com >>>>>> traceroute: Warning: google.com has multiple addresses; using = 173.194.41.128 >>>>>> traceroute to google.com (173.194.41.128), 64 hops max, 52 byte = packets >>>>>> 1 172.30.42.1 (172.30.42.1) 0.631 ms 0.323 ms 0.249 ms >>>>>> 2 * * * >>>>>> 3 10.1.3.234 (10.1.3.234) 22.596 ms 21.241 ms 22.392 ms >>>>>> 4 * 10.1.3.214 (10.1.3.214) 27.018 ms 26.703 ms >>>>>> 5 10.1.4.249 (10.1.4.249) 29.682 ms 28.923 ms 27.479 ms >>>>>> 6 * * * >>>>>> 7 * 209.85.252.186 (209.85.252.186) 30.379 ms * >>>>>> 8 72.14.238.55 (72.14.238.55) 25.745 ms 25.345 ms 25.594 ms >>>>>> 9 lhr08s03-in-f0.1e100.net (173.194.41.128) 27.566 ms 27.390 = ms 27.663 ms >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> mtr shows packet losses at hops 2-5=20 >>>>>> 10.1.3.* are Internet Watch Foundation. >>>>>=20 >>>>> This looks pretty reasonable for an adsl link (could be way = worse with higher interleaving) >>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Netalyzr was used. I appreciate it is an imperfect metric. >>>>=20 >>>> OK. Like the ping train idea. Cannot get netperf 2.6.0 to build on = Ubuntu 12.04 >>>=20 >>> So I typically run a 1000 count ping against the nearest host = that is on the other side of the DSL link that also gives consistent = ping RTTs without load. Then I start my test loads like saturating the = upload with a long runnig TCP transfer and opening 99 media heavy tabs = in a browser (I really should try the chrome benchmark that Dave is = using). And the I simply look through the ping statistic results, = typically I look at the maximum, and at the standard deviation to get a = handle on how tight the shaper held latency under control. (If I should = get netperf-wrapper to work under Macosx I will try to use that for = testing, but it does not even install, and if I get past that hurdle I = will have to adjust for the differences between Gnu ping and BSD ping). >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Best Regards >>> Sebastian >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Well, I ran into this issue before. In short netalyzr's worst = case delay numbers do not seem to reflect how an fq_codelled connection = feels. =20 >>>>> Netalyzr uses an unresponsive UDP probe to force the bottleneck = router's buffers to fill up; with unresponsiveness being a property no = sane flow over the intent should exhibit. Codel/fq_codel is tailored for = responsive flows and will only gradually increase its drop frequency so = responsive TCP flows will be controlled gently and keep link utilization = high. Given enough time codel will also rein in an unresponsive flows. = But netalyzr's probe duration is too short for that to be happening = during netalyzr's runtime. >>>>> Fq_codel in my experience does a decent job at keeping = interactivity high even with competing traffic like netalyzr (so turn a = ping train against say 10.1.3.234 while netalyzr runs or try = netperf-wrapper in addition).=20 >>>>> So netalyzr really probes the worst case buffer depth against = basically a "denial of service" type of load; I am not fully sure what = the expectancy on the disc here should be. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> best >>>>> Sebastian >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> On 31 Jul 2013, at 21:38, Sebastian Moeller = wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>> tc -s -d class show dev ge00 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >>>>>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >>>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >>>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >>>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >=20