From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [131.179.128.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BA4E53B29D; Mon, 2 Aug 2021 20:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7DE1600B5; Mon, 2 Aug 2021 17:37:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10032) with ESMTP id 548chwpGyV9j; Mon, 2 Aug 2021 17:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B91521600FA; Mon, 2 Aug 2021 17:37:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.cs.ucla.edu Received: from zimbra.cs.ucla.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zimbra.cs.ucla.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id GNSvLKOLAIxz; Mon, 2 Aug 2021 17:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (cpe-172-117-11-163.socal.res.rr.com [172.117.11.163]) by zimbra.cs.ucla.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 6F3E81600B5; Mon, 2 Aug 2021 17:37:33 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.100.0.2.22\)) From: Leonard Kleinrock In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2021 17:37:33 -0700 Cc: Leonard Kleinrock , Bob McMahon , Luca Muscariello , Cake List , Make-Wifi-fast , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, codel@lists.bufferbloat.net, cerowrt-devel , bloat , Ben Greear Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8677F5C4-1893-4A61-A13C-3C8BE17CB789@cs.ucla.edu> References: <1625188609.32718319@apps.rackspace.com> <989de0c1-e06c-cda9-ebe6-1f33df8a4c24@candelatech.com> <1625773080.94974089@apps.rackspace.com> To: David Lang X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.100.0.2.22) Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2021 00:37:36 -0000 These cases are what my student, Fouad Tobagi and I called the Hidden = Terminal Problem (with the Busy Tone solution) back in 1975. Len=20 > On Aug 2, 2021, at 4:16 PM, David Lang wrote: >=20 > If you are going to setup a test environment for wifi, you need to = include the ability to make a fe cases that only happen with RF, not = with wired networks and are commonly overlooked >=20 > 1. station A can hear station B and C but they cannot hear each other > 2. station A can hear station B but station B cannot hear station A 3. = station A can hear that station B is transmitting, but not with a strong = enough signal to decode the signal (yes in theory you can work around = interference, but in practice interference is still a real thing) >=20 > David Lang >=20