From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.toke.dk (mail.toke.dk [IPv6:2001:470:dc45:1000::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B7783B2A4 for ; Thu, 5 Jan 2017 06:04:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail.toke.dk (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail.toke.dk (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D1F33B1C4; Thu, 5 Jan 2017 12:04:33 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=toke.dk; s=20161023; t=1483614273; bh=3AfpH6MNV6c9j73/uJ3CvAN9FqJqy9RgNWqIIL6+Nhg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=ae1qdvdwVOIK1UADn8EcPpyEN0Qs3csD8mcaYwWb/r75ZZLeNQt9zHrjtOOa7ogyl Aq+nBoIW6gYpnQOZG5JnV8KXn87dqH0+7cftRha97qrV60IBSfzGp7MU0otY1BmWgU r1kB18PRsR5+TIS6Jlv87PI2+FOzs5CWuGrOVhgYyZ3Nrim4aboTJghrE3HsyUqog5 kmB+7P9xk9Gc8xiA8owpfrmFKiCbTzaGxM3aOvA6cjcJR37aMzM4UOSeq0bQBuNMIF IcS2Ia2XDJaHIwhcIvcyL/6H8PEyDZNZt6oFPN1rXYQYvcI9rlJyXVbaojJg9m5hB+ cDOT+By5G90OA== Received: by alrua-x1.borgediget.toke.dk (Postfix, from userid 1000) id EE26C15A06; Thu, 5 Jan 2017 12:04:32 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Toke_H=C3=B8iland-J=C3=B8rgensen?= To: Jonathan Morton Cc: Aaron Wood , "cerowrt-devel\@lists.bufferbloat.net" References: <0336DE7E-A69C-4F1B-ADB7-0AE81DD8A657@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2017 12:04:32 +0100 In-Reply-To: <0336DE7E-A69C-4F1B-ADB7-0AE81DD8A657@gmail.com> (Jonathan Morton's message of "Wed, 4 Jan 2017 23:57:08 +0200") X-Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett Message-ID: <8760ltzs1r.fsf@toke.dk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] gaming routers... X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2017 11:04:35 -0000 Jonathan Morton writes: >> On 4 Jan, 2017, at 23:45, Aaron Wood wrote: >>=20 >> "but it has revealed that the WRT32X is designed to automatically detect >> computers using the Killer-line of network adapters, indicating it's pro= bably >> a gaming-focused PC from a company like Alienware, MSI, or Razer that re= quires >> priority access to the home's internet. It does the same thing for an Xb= ox as >> well, if console gaming is more your thing.=E2=80=9D > > In other words, they=E2=80=99re aware of the (user level) problem, but th= ey still don=E2=80=99t > really =E2=80=9Cget it=E2=80=9D at a technical solution level. And they c= all it =E2=80=9Csecret sauce=E2=80=9D > and hide the details, because they don=E2=80=99t want competitors to copy= them. > >> Or it's looking at the mac ids of the devices, and queuing them separate= ly, >> with higher priority, but throttled to a percentage of overall bandwidth= . Much >> like the Cisco recommendations for voip traffic using EF. > > It=E2=80=99s looking at MACs all right, but not the way you suggest. It= =E2=80=99s just classifying certain vendor IDs as =E2=80=9Cvoice=E2=80=9D b= y default, and leaving the rest at =E2=80=9Cbest effort=E2=80=9D. > > It would however be very interesting to see whether we can measure the > differences between this approach and the ath9k work - purely to illumina= te > whether the proprietary or open-source approaches are more effective in > practice. We did get some results comparing using the VO queue with the FQ-CoDel MAC layer changes for the WiFi bufferbloat work. We used synthetic MOS values as the metric for this (which I'm not sure if anyone actually puts any trust in), but we did see that fixing the queueing gave us *better* performance than we got using the VO queue before the fixes. Post fixes, the VO queue still gives slightly better performance than BE, but the difference is only slightly above the noise level. -Toke