From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7896A3B2AF for ; Thu, 23 Jun 2016 20:02:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:1]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/56228) with ESMTP id u5O02VCi011417 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 24 Jun 2016 02:02:31 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by potemkin.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay2/56228) with ESMTP id u5O02Uot021284; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 02:02:30 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E256361FA1; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 02:02:30 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id Q96okhE-17zn; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 02:02:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from trurl.pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr (col75-1-78-194-40-74.fbxo.proxad.net [78.194.40.74]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 1D15F61FA2; Fri, 24 Jun 2016 02:02:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 02:02:30 +0200 Message-ID: <87mvmbpi7d.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Dave Taht Cc: "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" , "babel-users@lists.alioth.debian.org" In-Reply-To: References: <87lh1xihnv.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <87vb0zpnel.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> <87oa6rpl7h.wl-jch@pps.univ-paris-diderot.fr> User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]); Fri, 24 Jun 2016 02:02:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (potemkin.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.141]); Fri, 24 Jun 2016 02:02:31 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 576C7897.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-Miltered: at potemkin with ID 576C7896.000 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 576C7897.000 from potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/null/potemkin.univ-paris7.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 576C7896.000 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 576C7897.000 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 576C7896.000 on potemkin.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Subject: [Cerowrt-devel] Why we are discussing ARM [was: Cross-compiling to armhf] X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2016 00:02:40 -0000 We've got pretty much off-topic for both of these lists, so I guess I should explain to folks who are not in the know why we are discussing ARM. Historically, much of the Babel/mesh routing/bufferbloat work has happened on MIPS boxes. Our elderly Asus 500GP are still rock solid, if a little slow, and our main workhorse is still the lovely WNDR3700v2, with its two independent Gigabit Ethernets, its two independent 802.11n 2x2 radios with support for simultaneous AP and mesh. MIPS remains my favourite architecture (look, Ma, no condition codes!), but it has been slowly dying over the last years. While Imagination Technologies have been producing new releases of the arch and apparently new cores, I haven't seen an exciting MIPS chip for ages. Dave has been bullying me into looking at ARM boards -- and while the instruction set is not a pretty sight, the ecosystem is healthy, with chips spanning the whole range from ridiculously cheap microcontrollers to things that are marketed as server CPUs (the Intel folks laughing in the background spoils the effect somewhat, though). Add to this that the 64-bit ISA is an almost exact clone of MIPS (except that it still has condition codes, grr, have those people never written a compiler?). So here, at Babel Towers, we're seriously considering switching to ARM when we next have funding for new hardware, and dropping OpenWRT in favour of stock Debian. Things that we've been considering: CHIP board: https://getchip.com/ Turris Omnia: https://omnia.turris.cz/en/ Snickerdoodle board: http://krtkl.com/ Nothing we have found is as nice as the old WNDR3700/3800. The CHIP is marvelously cheap (cheap enough to give out to students!) and has flexible power requirements, but it doesn't have wired Ethernet, and its wifi is connected over SDIO, with everything that entails. The Turris Omnia is badly overspecced, with a price to match. The Snickerdoodle is promising, but it's currently vapourware, its WiFi sucks, and when combined with the dual-Ethernet daughterboard it becomes fairly expensive. Things that we haven't been considering, Dave's enthusiasm notwithstanding: Raspberry Pi: doesn't run armhf userspace, no wifi, eth connected by USB; Raspberry Pi v2/v3: requires binary blobs, wifi and eth connected over USB; Beagleboard variants: look nice, but no wifi; MeshSR: they did almost everything wrong. So, folks, if anyone has good experiences with cheap ARM boards that have wifi and Ethernet and work well with a stock Debian userspace, I'm interested. -- Juliusz