From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wi0-f171.google.com (mail-wi0-f171.google.com [209.85.212.171]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 73C6F200831 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:19:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by wibhm2 with SMTP id hm2so1894843wib.16 for ; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of dave.taht@gmail.com designates 10.180.92.71 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.180.92.71; Authentication-Results: mr.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of dave.taht@gmail.com designates 10.180.92.71 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=dave.taht@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=dave.taht@gmail.com Received: from mr.google.com ([10.180.92.71]) by 10.180.92.71 with SMTP id ck7mr721439wib.3.1330035556345 (num_hops = 1); Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:19:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=SCtdqGZEsp/dBTZeEMRymxAvnKjuoE5ALPATlJ3F6Dc=; b=ZSVAeOJSCk1eWXyI7z0dVLvEAv+DnPCIU0L+HGEA4KsgjGiK8JQAnkQRSsZ7G6mykv kWTbLPoGNn+pZW4Dd+5A0fUv6P89o9eYLMCfiK/ujYsD/vQxhPMqFO+El0DMmvKpEtdV gf2l3K3THElZexsBvIVVtXUWP9ylLnuMGA9Uo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.180.92.71 with SMTP id ck7mr585093wib.3.1330035556140; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:19:16 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.223.117.1 with HTTP; Thu, 23 Feb 2012 14:19:16 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <8298354A-C133-4FAE-830F-D69C5B7D1E79@gmx.de> References: <8298354A-C133-4FAE-830F-D69C5B7D1E79@gmx.de> Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 23:19:16 +0100 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: Sebastian Moeller Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] smoketest BQL-40 is out X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:19:19 -0000 your min time is higher than I'd expected, but certainly the mean and max and stddev have improved. Could you send the output of tc -s qdisc show dev ge00 after a test run? > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Yes, that did the trick! Now AQM actually is even better t= han QoS for my worst case scenario, saturating uplink, starting one downlin= k elephant and open 93 media heavy tabs in the browser. > I now get: > 100 packets transmitted, 73 packets received, 27.0% packet loss > round-trip min/avg/max/stddev =3D 33.941/108.083/177.825/22.795 ms > > while using QoS I got: > 100 packets transmitted, 75 packets received, 25.0% packet loss > round-trip min/avg/max/stddev =3D 18.111/181.506/325.416/45.006 ms > > AQM is even better behaved than QoS now. That is pretty cool. > > BTW the web AQM interface manged to set the enabled line in /etc/config/a= qm just fine it just did not seem to manage to do the equivalent of /etc/in= it.d/aqm start. > > Cool stuff. > > Best > =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Sebastian > > > >> >>>> >>>> This will not be the final url for the 3.3 development >>>> series, but >>>> >>>> http://huchra.bufferbloat.net/~cero1/3.3/ >>>> >>>> has that. >>>> >>>> I made a small dent in the qos/aqm problem there, >>>> (my intent was to basically treat the above as 'bql-41' - >>>> I wanted to treat 3.3 issues and bql issues separately, >>>> but lack time to do both, and 3.3 is going swimmingly, so...) >>>> >>>> but I'm puzzled as to what you are seeing below. >>>> >>>> 0) Did you enable the aqm script? If you merely run it >>>> without enabling it, nothing happens. Similarly, the qos script >>>> needs to be disabled. >>> >>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Sorry for not being clear, I always had only the module = under test enabled, the other one was always disabled. One thing I noticed,= when enabling QoS I get the "Applying changes" info widget and it will sta= te "/etc/config/qos" while enabling AQM will not show any "/etc/config" inf= o, but that might be purely cosmetic. Will investigate, as it looks somehow= AQM is never really enabled. >>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Question do I need to install any package under the syst= em->software tab for AQM to fully work? I assume not. >> >> No, aside from the web interface being as yet untested... >> >>> >>>> >>>> 1) Neither the AQM nor qos script does ADSL overhead right, >>>> and I'd got puzzled on what was 'right' after fiddling with it. >>> >>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Well, I agree that the overhead calculation as implement= ed in generate.sh is quite dubious (it looks like a stochastic approach). >> >> Completely dubious and probably dates back to before the stab work. >> >>> So I used the fact that cewrowrt comes with quite recent tc and used tc= 's "stab" option as that seems theoretically solve both the ATM carrier pac= ket quantization as well as the per packet overhead issues quite well. >> >> Yes. >>> >>>> >>>> 2) both qos and aqm calculated the sfq 'limit' variable wrong, and >>>> neither did ipv6 work right at all. >>> >>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0I still have no IPv6 available so I did not test that. A= nd even with the limit error QoS still works okay. (And I quite sure so wil= l AQM once I manage to actually activate it :) ) >> >> Well, my concern is mostly that bittorrent will misbehave worse under >> this system than otherwise. >> >> Qos-scripts uses hfsc + sfq for two bins, and hfsc + red for two other >> bins. Both sfq and red have improvements that qos-scripts should now >> be automatically picking up - red was entirely broken before kernel >> 3.2, actually. >> >> AQM-scripts - at least this cut at it - will use hfsc + sfqred for all >> bins, and saner limits for both sfq and the red component of sfqred >> which will hopefully >> >> I have to admit that the simplest possible implementation of the new >> stuff in debloat is performing pretty well - which is merely htb + 1 >> bin of sfqred. >> >> So if you pull down the latest debloat from the deBloat repo, and just >> run a command line of >> >> IFACE=3Dge00 QMODEL=3Dhtb_sfq_red UPLINK=3Dwhatever_in_kbits /usr/sbin/d= ebloat >> >> the results should be pretty good. >> >> I'm thinking a two tier model (Best effort and background) will be >> pretty good, 3 tiers and >> I can emulate most of pfifo_fast's behavior, but I don't see a need >> for the 4 tier model in qos-scripts, but that's why we test... >> >>> >>>> >>>> I believe, but don't remember, that at least those fixes got made in >>>> the 3.3rc4-1 code. Actually there's a better fix for the ipv6 issue >>>> than what's there=85 >>> >>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Ah, so I will keep changing my firmware :) >> >> Like I said, it's mostly just scripts now.... no huge need for that. >> >>>> >>>> 3) I am not intending to stick with the aqm script as structured now, >>>> but to finish modifying the 'debloat' script to have all the features = required. >>>> >>>> that one has a bunch of semi-working queue models in it. >>>> >>>> If yer gonna hack scripts, please take a look at that one. >>>> There are plenty of things it needs and the qos and aqm scripts >>>> are more feature complete, tho=85 >>> >>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0OH, thanks for the pointer, I have not looked at debloat= recently, but I am somewhat confused by the generate.sh and trulls.awk com= bination, so I hope that debloat is more accessible for non-programmers... >> >> There is some really good stuff in the current combo, but I too found >> the amalagation of shell and awk kind of difficult. Wanted one >> language, with floating point, which was why I ended up >> going for lua, which has it's own problems too, but... >>> >>> >>>> >>>> 4) re updates: I have to warn against doing sysupgrade "and keep files >>>> in place", as the based filesystem does change, and I'm not making >>>> huge attempts at dealing with that. so doing a backup >>>> then a sysupdate -n (-n meaning don't preserve files over the backup) >>>> is generally a good idea. >>> >>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Thanks for the advise, I actually reflashed the factory = firmware for bql-40 and called it update, sorry for being unclear. Actually= the installation flashing instructions (http://www.bufferbloat.net/project= s/cerowrt/wiki/CeroWrt_flashing_instructions) were quite specific about whi= ch method one should use. >> >> Yep. Large red letters and everything. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> anyway: >>>> >>>> commit be09b8c15b6dc6bf4cb7da3112c598138a9c77ef >>>> Author: Dave Taht >>>> Date: =A0 Tue Feb 14 14:38:40 2012 +0000 >>>> >>>> =A0 =A0SFQ is limited in packets. RED is in bytes. tcrules.awk conflat= ed these >>>> >>>> =A0 =A0The original openwrt shaper took the RED byte calculation... >>>> =A0 =A0and reused it to specify a limit for sfq. However, sfq uses >>>> =A0 =A0packets rather than bytes, so it was specifying, say 16000 byte= s >>>> =A0 =A0and translating that to 16000 packets. >>>> >>>> =A0 =A0This was not an error I prior to 3.3, because SFQ had a >>>> =A0 =A0hard coded limit of 127 packets. It is now. >>>> >>>> =A0 =A0So this commit puts a lower and upper bound on the maximum pack= ets >>>> =A0 =A0that is sane, but is not pre 3.2 compatible. >>>> >>>> commit 44f8febbd34686564516c3261a911bd7cffcf714 >>> >>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Thanks a lot for the great project. >> >> Getting there! >> >>> Best >>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Sebastian >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 23, 2012 at 6:21 AM, Sebastian Moeller w= rote: >>>>> Hi Dave, >>>>> >>>>> I finally got around to update from rc6 to bql-40, to try the ATM sha= ping. The update was a breeze, great work! >>>>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0I am sad to report that for my ATM link AQM does not w= ork for me as well as QoS does. My measurement consists out of using ping t= o get the RTT to the first ISP hop (as taken from trace route) while concur= rently saturating the up link with a dropbox upload (which I usually give t= hat a headstart of 10 seconds to go into bandwidth ceiling): AQM gives the = same bad avg RTT of 1.2 seconds as no shaping at all does, while QoS gives = me an avg RTT of around 24ms (best case RTT is around 13ms on my link, so t= he link stays pretty useable). >>>>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0I tried to apply the same changes to /usr/lib/aqm/gene= rate.sh and /usr/lib/qos/generate.sh to make the them better understand the= peculiarities of my ATM adsl1 connection, but it seems I did something wro= ng for the AQM script since my change does not have any effect there=85 (bo= th modified files attached). I usually only =A0shape up- and down-stream to= 97% of the line rate, which works ok with QoS. (And all my tests have been= done, very unscientifically, using my mac laptop over the 5GHz wireless ba= nd of the router=85 ) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0While this is not too helpful, it might give some hint= s for bql-42, as from the roadmap I take it you will tackle the dsl issue t= here. I am just about to move and switch from DSL to cable internet, so unf= ortunately this might be my last test=85 >>>>> >>>>> (BTW, I have been playing with the -s option of ping to change the pa= yload size and for my measly 3008kbps down, 512kbps up connection I can act= ually see the 48 byte ATM package boundaries in avg RTTs (-c 100), for each= new ATM package I roughly get 1ms added to the RTT (as expected when doing= the math the my line rate). So I think it should be possible to figure out= whether a link uses ATM as carrier or not (IIRC newer ADSL systems like AT= &T's verse HSI use ADSL2 over PTM-TC instead of ATM so touch connections st= ill have per package overhead to account for but lack the weird ATM repack = issues). >>>>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0I also have a hunch that using this method it should b= e possible to deduct a link's overhead (as taken understood by tc's step op= tion) from a properly prepared ping sweep. In other words my hypothesis is = that it should be possible to run a script on a non-shaped idle link and fi= gure out the optimal parameters for stab. But I digress=85 (And alas, in tw= o days my DSL connection will be gone and I can not even test my hypothesis= in any meaningful way until then...)) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> best >>>>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Sebastian >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 14, 2012, at 11:53 AM, Dave Taht wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> http://huchra.bufferbloat.net/~cero1/bql-smoketests/bql-40/ >>>>>> >>>>>> changes in this release: >>>>>> >>>>>> kernel 3.3-rc3 >>>>>> bind 9.9rc2 >>>>>> ntpd + dnssec removed (too buggy) >>>>>> snmpd installed by default >>>>>> fprobe installed by default >>>>>> avahi installed by default >>>>>> >>>>>> sort of better working 'aqm' shaper installed >>>>>> ** when configured uses hfsc + sfqred >>>>>> ** still has trouble with ipv6, diffserv, and tcp elephants >>>>>> ** no adsl overhead support >>>>>> >>>>>> I will be travelling later this week. What I'm mostly >>>>>> working on right now is better ipv6 support. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Dave T=E4ht >>>>>> SKYPE: davetaht >>>>>> US Tel: 1-239-829-5608 >>>>>> FR Tel: 0638645374 >>>>>> http://www.bufferbloat.net >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >>>>>> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Dave T=E4ht >>>> SKYPE: davetaht >>>> US Tel: 1-239-829-5608 >>>> http://www.bufferbloat.net >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Dave T=E4ht >> SKYPE: davetaht >> US Tel: 1-239-829-5608 >> http://www.bufferbloat.net > --=20 Dave T=E4ht SKYPE: davetaht US Tel: 1-239-829-5608 http://www.bufferbloat.net