From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oi0-x230.google.com (mail-oi0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::230]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0346E21F298 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 09:54:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-f48.google.com with SMTP id a141so11075502oig.7 for ; Tue, 09 Sep 2014 09:54:56 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=FEW4vbn9A6UVHRfzpLEeRmblxpzHR7LmJtenk5FtfEs=; b=Y70zmllwv4156wppNOuOvhudAds4oJ/U/zriwv/WPeDvumqUMWwAcwBcGngbfDu65Z Kz27NWnUkrOXff6ztgIdtFqphsmc2TzCA/1T5DK1yZInmBXFT6k/+AUDczJdBfdULX1P 5Svp/ds9EsbhLfyENWYfZLcYq4xkBfdrtnHbSCuBlEDS4oBMhvI6JykFkNos++FvVYlM qtlAobM0e16RBQJyJGkDuVewab2ECeE83xoJbHiS/GpaF9HUCiJ3NHab3eLcBg+1Mcf6 KRT1INjtiYUdyxmRiWrvJeeIufvLQ2ATq2bmkT1JhhyxdQ8KQpwprc/kbAnVar2DhrJU 998A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.96.129 with SMTP id ds1mr40339932oeb.43.1410281696103; Tue, 09 Sep 2014 09:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.227.76 with HTTP; Tue, 9 Sep 2014 09:54:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1410279963.30013719@apps.rackspace.com> References: <1410279963.30013719@apps.rackspace.com> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 09:54:56 -0700 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: David Reed Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Wes Felter , =?UTF-8?Q?Joel_Wir=C4=81mu_Pauling?= , "cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net" Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] 10GigE nics and SFP+ modules? X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2014 16:55:27 -0000 On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 9:26 AM, wrote: > I agree with you if you have to install Cat6a and Cat7 structured wiring = in > a building! What a nightmare trying to find contractors who can meet spec= on > junction boxes, etc. and do the right testing. Every connector on the pa= th > is problematic. > > But for "casual" home networking use or research lab experiments, copper = is > fine. That was my point. I think in a "rack-scale" datascenter networki= ng > situation. probably better to go with fiber, but copper costs are > attractive. > I was absolutely delighted to see all the tutorials on this site, example: http://www.fiberstore.com/How-to-install-aerial-fiber-optic-cables-aid-386.= html Here I was thinking I'd have to go write another http://www.rage.net/wireless/wireless-howto.html ... I have been a big advocate of municipal fiber, but have not had a good handle on the costs involved. I have generally heard it's 80% labor, 20% materials, and the cost of fiber cabling alone, at least at retail is kind of intimidating. I see a lot of tradeoffs being made with GPON that for example, single mode fiber deployments such as amsterdam's didn't make. http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2010/03/how-amsterdam-was-wired-for-open= -access-fiber/ - and kind of concerned about the "bumps in the wire" there. and several costs there have dropped significantly, routerboard is making a SFP+ capable 5 port switch for like 50 dollars, and things like this router-you-can-drop-off-a-truck, developed in africa... http://shop.brck.com/brcks/brck-v1.html I'm not so much interested in 10GigE in the home, as 10GigE or 1GigE on a small campus, like what I have here, which is presently a dozen+ directional APs spread over runs of 126-380 meters, outdoors. If I were to pursue FTTY (Fiber To The Yurt!), what would the costs and tradeoffs be? What would a reasonably redundant network look like? Could you go with a meshier topology? How would you repair things after an earthquake? It's an interesting set of theoretical questions. Unlike some, I'd not have certain ISPs lobbying to stop me from trying, the telephone poles are locally owned, ground burial is not a problem, either, and the labor is cheap. Admittedly, now that bug 442 is seemingly fixed, I can finally bring the reliability of the wifi here back up to a saner level, and deploy multiple exit nodes to comcast and elsewhere via hnetd, so upgrading to fiber throughout the campus is purely speculative at the moment, a nice distraction from thinking further on fixing wifi. (my original intent remains: just fiddling with 10GigE on a small test setup, to see packet patterns at high rates) > > > > > > > On Tuesday, September 9, 2014 12:06am, "Joel Wir=C4=81mu Pauling" > said: > >> Note I know whilst you are talking copper. IME 10Gbit copper is >> nothing but a hassle. You are lucky to get 30Metres out of a run >> without Negotiation issues. >> >> I encourage you strongly to look to using Optical LX style fibre if >> you are moving to 10G. The cost of structured cabling and the length >> of runs is a lot cheaper than Cat6a/7 runs needed for 10gbit copper. >> >> On 9 September 2014 16:03, Joel Wir=C4=81mu Pauling >> wrote: >> > Just a head's up I have had issues with the X5xx intel SFP+ optics >> > interoperating with other vendors. This may not be an issue for your >> > deployment. >> > >> > If you want good interop then Broadcom based optics seem to be the >> > best bet at the moment. >> > >> > On 9 September 2014 12:09, Wes Felter wrote: >> >> The Intel X710 just came out today; it's a little cheaper. (Note that >> >> the >> >> X710 is 10G and the XL710 is 40G because XL is 40 in Roman numerals.) >> >> >> >> >> >> http://www.colfaxdirect.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=3D2227&idcate= gory=3D0 >> >> >> >> (I've never bought from Colfax, but they carry a lot of "enterprise" >> >> equipment that isn't available on NewEgg/Amazon.) >> >> >> >> There are super-cheap optics and twinax available from China. You may >> have >> >> to hack the Intel driver since they're not "supported". >> >> >> >> http://www.fiberstore.com/c/10g-sfp+_63 >> >> http://www.fiberstore.com/c/10g-sfp+-cables_1115 >> >> >> >> Or you could just get an account at the Snabb Lab. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Wes Felter >> >> IBM Research - Austin >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >> >> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >> _______________________________________________ >> Cerowrt-devel mailing list >> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel > --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht https://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/make-wifi-fast