From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-x231.google.com (mail-ob0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::231]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CE8FD21F96B; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 00:55:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbbh8 with SMTP id bh8so76891078obb.0; Tue, 08 Sep 2015 00:55:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=44fpaVf1gFnZ7p6cSe/Tloa4fjCSuypHqMsvgu2EunU=; b=MFhVnGAgXkdnHGp5gKmuw//uVNK8RAEQXLxBHwn02Q5RlCq2Ehl+m1CNuOqhM6ad3u yy+hvebyUYpUs5ezG2M13xH4Jxbx4UZowA+N8WosA5MYTUp+P51t+KvUaNUDcvbhQsB/ w42XB+pWeLIl9l7iDlNZpv7ZFuNjrVqbZZHbEC9mqkFWM6aPZRFqxM89DuT6gl+gCRI8 z5DnI2HLvq9s24MlK2vodoyh2Cnvsqp9ErEfRHLsz/mtNfbjHrpYYhIKQGTc/YEkA+yq W2fM3itFRtFlfZcMVKBE/f3eGQ4Rz+MQOauBiUGtohnOkyAerSFUU4pBLjENhB9YTBsx 53NQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.92.199 with SMTP id co7mr18163572oeb.37.1441698916398; Tue, 08 Sep 2015 00:55:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.50.135 with HTTP; Tue, 8 Sep 2015 00:55:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <3622_1441530152_55EC0128_3622_12857_1_trq0v99audwl95cwathr8odm.1441530143942@email.android.com> References: <3622_1441530152_55EC0128_3622_12857_1_trq0v99audwl95cwathr8odm.1441530143942@email.android.com> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 00:55:16 -0700 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: "MUSCARIELLO Luca OLNC/OLN" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: bloat , cerowrt-devel , "make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net" Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] RE : [Bloat] Save WiFi from the FCC - DEADLINE is in 3 days *September* 8 X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2015 07:55:40 -0000 Well, so far there has not been enough technical analysis. It is the game theory fail that bothers me most - users of LTE spectrum can encroach upon the wifi bands, and retreat to their own, but wifi users cannot, and further, cannot even detect when or if lte-u is messing up their lives, nor complain to a responsible party. In only one of the two analyses published to date: http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.de/2015/06/encouraging-innovation-wi-fi-= and-lte-in.html They buried the lede here - "A distinctive aspect of LTE in unlicensed=E2=80=94as compared to other unlicensed technologies developed to date=E2=80=94is that it is a license= =C2=AD anchored system that operates simultaneously across licensed and unlicensed bands. Furthermore, LTE in unlicensed allows traffic to be moved dynamically, on a per=C2=ADuser and even on a per=C2=ADtraffic flow b= asis, across the licensed and unlicensed bands. This makes LTE in unlicensed substantially less sensitive to interference and collisions in the unlicensed band, because it is able to move traffic so quickly from the unlicensed band to the licensed band, in a very granular fashion, whenever congestion occurs in the unlicensed band. Purely unlicensed operations, by contrast, can fail entirely if there is interference in that spectrum. Reduced sensitivity to the conditions in the unlicensed bands significantly reduces the incentives that designers of LTE in unlicensed have to develop well=C2=ADfunctioning coexistence mechanisms." secondly, having another user of this spectrum (in addition to the DFS mess), will make it harder for wifi to continue to evolve. Certainly we have here a lot of fixes stacked up that will make wifi a lot better, and future versions of the wifi standards will do better. I am no fan of the wifi mac, believe me, and if LTE-U was something I could buy in a store, and hack on, and use for private use, and deploy any way I wanted, I would probably favor it's deployment. But that is *not* the case, which is why I am saying that 1) "unlicensed spectrum =3D the public's spectrum" and 2) HANDS OFF OUR WIFI to the carriers. Places like forbes are pitching this as a battle between isps that use wifi, and the carriers... which bugs me. 5.x ghz is the people's spectrum, that we should be free to use any way we want... and to make it faster, easier to use, and more reliable, my goal - LTE-U is a huge step backwards. I would like vastly more spectrum opened up to free public use - the rules and regs around 24ghz and 60ghz are quite insane and restrictive, and - for example - I'd like a uhf band opened up for general use also.... On Sun, Sep 6, 2015 at 2:02 AM, wrote: > is there any serious study that proves that LTE U is a threat? > > -------- Message d'origine -------- > De : Dave Taht > Date :2015/09/06 12:06 AM (GMT+01:00) > =C3=80 : Rich Brown > Cc : make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net, cerowrt-devel , bloat > Objet : Re: [Bloat] Save WiFi from the FCC - DEADLINE is in 3 days > *September* 8 > > while the current FCC course sucks, I personally have been unable to > summon the moxy to fight anymore. Decided to migrate to the eu > instead, only to find the same ruling going into play here. Is there > no place left on the planet safe to innovate in? > > and: LTE-U is an even greater threat, and I'm low on ideas on how to coun= ter > it. > > http://www.wsj.com/articles/cell-carriers-battle-for-wi-fi-airwaves-14405= 43853 > > On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 7:12 AM, Rich Brown wrot= e: >> Folks, >> >> Dave may have buried the lede in his previous note... The date for >> comments >> to the FCC is not a month away, but only three days away - 8 Sep 2015. >> >> To see the talking points for preparing your comments, go to: >> https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Save_WiFi >> >> To submit a comment, click the green "SUBMIT A FORMAL COMMENT" button on >> >> https://www.federalregister.gov/articles/2015/08/06/2015-18402/equipment= -authorization-and-electronic-labeling-for-wireless-devices >> >> Please post a link to your comments when you're done. >> >> Rich >> >> On Sep 5, 2015, at 6:42 AM, Dave Taht wrote: >> >> In other news: >> >> I am glad to see the more political save-the-wifi coming online rapidly: >> >> https://libreplanet.org/wiki/Save_WiFi >> >> I HAD NO IDEA that the follow-on rules for 2016 would basically ban >> modifiable firmware entirely, nor that the DFS problem was due to only 4= 1 >> old radars that need to be replaced anyway. >> >> Comment deadline for the fcc is sept 8th, not oct 8, which means we shou= ld >> strap ourselves into the writing console, like, today. >> >> > > > > -- > Dave T=C3=A4ht > endo is a terrible disease: http://www.gofundme.com/SummerVsEndo > _______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re= cu > ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u > falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and > delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n > modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht endo is a terrible disease: http://www.gofundme.com/SummerVsEndo