Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
To: Rich Brown <richb.hanover@gmail.com>
Cc: cerowrt-devel <cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Dave Täht quoted in the ACLU blog
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:29:34 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAA93jw4zdLN27qS2+pmPNES8=LVgWM4CigugHNj8150ZMJHgsQ@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <F13F43D1-D551-4C59-A5AF-8012A1196210@gmail.com>

A little out of context. I'd had a string of private convos with
robert trying to explain how peering worked before he'd written the
wired article, trying to get him to understand aqm and fair queuing
also.

As for the key misconception in the debate between level3, netflix, and isps...

 What I basically had said was that "the service provider, netflix in
this instance, had to pay someone to host their servers, cover the
cost of electricity and the cost of a port on big fat ethernet switch,
and it didn't matter if they paid a middleman like level3 for the
connectivity, OR an ISP that hosted the box on their internal
network."

It happens to be most cost-effective, if you have enough traffic, to
co-locate with the ISP. AND, in most cases, since that's cheaper to
the ISP than a middleman, ISPs have traditionally offered rack space
for free and the service provider covered the cost of the hardware,
the ISP is already getting paid by the customer, and the requirements
of the hardware and related capex and maintence costs by the service
provider.

Now, an argument can be made that the service provider  should also
pay for the rack space and electricity to the ISP, the same as if they
were co-located elsewhere and connected to a middleman, - and in *that
case* some regulation in order to ensure a fair market seems
necessary. (but it's also a hassle... and

later on in this debate, gfiber published their policies for
co-locating services like netflix in their datacenters, which made
that point more clearly, and explicitly laid out their policies to the
possible political detriment of the ISPs making the argument above.

 http://googlefiberblog.blogspot.com/2014/05/minimizing-buffering.html

Still, the points I made about congestion control, aqm and fair
queuing weren't made with the ACLU and I suppose I should go over
there to make those portions of my points, because the darn fast
lane/slow lane analogy is seriously flawed in general. Internet
traffic looks nothing like vehicular traffic.



On Tue, Jun 24, 2014 at 11:51 AM, Rich Brown <richb.hanover@gmail.com> wrote:
> See the second paragraph of:
>
> https://www.aclu.org/blog/technology-and-liberty/we-want-internet-providers-respond-internet-demand-not-shape-it
>
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel
>



-- 
Dave Täht

NSFW: https://w2.eff.org/Censorship/Internet_censorship_bills/russell_0296_indecent.article

  reply	other threads:[~2014-06-24 19:29 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 15+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-06-24 18:51 Rich Brown
2014-06-24 19:29 ` Dave Taht [this message]
2014-06-24 19:36   ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] " Steinar H. Gunderson
2014-06-24 19:45   ` [Cerowrt-devel] " Dave Taht
2014-06-24 20:01     ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] " Rick Jones
2014-06-24 20:08       ` Dave Taht
2014-06-24 21:48         ` Dave Taht
2014-06-24 21:38       ` Michael Richardson
2014-06-28  1:10         ` David Lang
2014-06-28  4:06           ` David P. Reed
2014-06-28  4:28             ` Dave Taht
2014-06-28 16:16               ` [Cerowrt-devel] Low Power UPSes (Was: Re: [Bloat] Dave Täht quoted in the ACLU blog) Joseph Swick
2014-06-30  3:45                 ` David Lang
2014-06-30 12:00                   ` dpreed
2014-06-28 16:49               ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Dave Täht quoted in the ACLU blog Theodore Ts'o

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://lists.bufferbloat.net/postorius/lists/cerowrt-devel.lists.bufferbloat.net/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to='CAA93jw4zdLN27qS2+pmPNES8=LVgWM4CigugHNj8150ZMJHgsQ@mail.gmail.com' \
    --to=dave.taht@gmail.com \
    --cc=bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net \
    --cc=cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net \
    --cc=richb.hanover@gmail.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox