Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project
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From: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
To: "David P. Reed" <dpreed@deepplum.com>
Cc: Luca Muscariello <muscariello@ieee.org>,
	Cake List <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	 Make-Wifi-fast <make-wifi-fast@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	Leonard Kleinrock <lk@cs.ucla.edu>,
	 Bob McMahon <bob.mcmahon@broadcom.com>,
	starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net,  codel@lists.bufferbloat.net,
	 cerowrt-devel <cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	Ben Greear <greearb@candelatech.com>
Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2021 18:21:56 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <CAA93jw5QyH4SqKT07hP+skijfimZ0GU=AgLJtkVOQGzKrAkazg@mail.gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <1625859083.09751240@apps.rackspace.com>

I just wanted to comment on how awesome this thread was, and how few
people outside this group deeply grok what was discussed here. I would
so like
to somehow construct an educational TV series explaining "How the
Internet really works" to a wider, and new audience, consisting of
animations, anecdotes,
and interviews with the key figures of its evolution.

While I deeply understood Len Kleinrock's work in the period
2011-2015, and tried to pass on analogies and intuition without using
the math since, inspired by van jacobson's
analogies and Radia Perlman's poetry, it's hard for me now to follow
the argument. Queue theory in particular, is not well known or taught
anymore, despite its obvious applications to things like the Covid
crisis.

But that would be just one thing! The end to end argument, the side
effects of spitting postscript into a lego robot, what actually
happens during a web page load, how a cpu actually works, are all
things that are increasingly lost in multiple mental models, and in my
mind many could be taught in kindergarden, if we worked at explaining
it hard enough.

  parent reply	other threads:[~2021-09-20  1:22 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 108+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-07-01  0:12 [Cerowrt-devel] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board Dave Taht
2021-07-02  1:16 ` David P. Reed
2021-07-02  4:04   ` [Make-wifi-fast] " Bob McMahon
2021-07-02 16:11     ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] " Dick Roy
2021-07-02 17:07   ` [Cerowrt-devel] " Dave Taht
2021-07-02 23:28     ` [Make-wifi-fast] " Bob McMahon
2021-07-06 13:46       ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] " Ben Greear
2021-07-06 20:43         ` [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-07-06 21:24           ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] " Ben Greear
2021-07-06 22:05             ` [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-07-07 13:34               ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] " Ben Greear
2021-07-07 19:19                 ` [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-07-08 19:38         ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] " David P. Reed
2021-07-08 22:51           ` [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-07-09  3:08           ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] " Leonard Kleinrock
2021-07-09 10:05             ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " Luca Muscariello
2021-07-09 19:31               ` [Cerowrt-devel] Little's Law mea culpa, but not invalidating my main point David P. Reed
2021-07-09 20:24                 ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-09 22:57                 ` [Bloat] " Holland, Jake
2021-07-09 23:37                   ` Toke Høiland-Jørgensen
2021-07-09 23:01                 ` [Cerowrt-devel] " Leonard Kleinrock
2021-07-09 23:56                   ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] " Jonathan Morton
2021-07-17 23:56                     ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] " Aaron Wood
2021-07-10 19:51                   ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-10 23:24                     ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-12 13:46                 ` [Bloat] " Livingood, Jason
2021-07-12 17:40                   ` [Cerowrt-devel] " David P. Reed
2021-07-12 18:21                     ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-12 18:38                       ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-12 19:07                       ` [Cerowrt-devel] " Ben Greear
2021-07-12 20:04                         ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-12 20:32                           ` [Cerowrt-devel] " Ben Greear
2021-07-12 20:36                             ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] " David Lang
2021-07-12 20:50                               ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-12 20:42                             ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-13  7:14                             ` [Cerowrt-devel] " Amr Rizk
2021-07-13 17:07                               ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-13 17:49                                 ` [Cerowrt-devel] " David P. Reed
2021-07-14 18:37                                   ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-15  1:27                                     ` Holland, Jake
2021-07-16  0:34                                       ` Bob McMahon
     [not found]                                   ` <A5E35F34-A4D5-45B1-8E2D-E2F6DE988A1E@cs.ucla.edu>
2021-07-22 16:30                                     ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-13 17:22                               ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-17 23:29                             ` [Cerowrt-devel] " Aaron Wood
2021-07-18 19:06                               ` Bob McMahon
2021-07-12 21:54                           ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] " Jonathan Morton
2021-09-20  1:21                 ` Dave Taht [this message]
2021-09-20  4:00                   ` [Cerowrt-devel] " Valdis Klētnieks
2021-09-20  4:09                     ` David Lang
2021-09-20 21:30                       ` David P. Reed
2021-09-20 21:44                         ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] " David P. Reed
2021-09-20 12:57                     ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] " Steve Crocker
2021-09-20 16:36                       ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] " John Sager
2021-09-21  2:40                       ` [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] " Vint Cerf
2021-09-23 17:46                         ` Bob McMahon
2021-09-26 18:24                           ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] " David P. Reed
2021-10-22  0:51                             ` TCP_NOTSENT_LOWAT applied to e2e TCP msg latency Bob McMahon
2021-10-26  3:11                               ` [Make-wifi-fast] " Stuart Cheshire
2021-10-26  4:24                                 ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] " Eric Dumazet
2021-10-26 18:45                                   ` Christoph Paasch
2021-10-26 23:23                                     ` Bob McMahon
2021-10-26 23:38                                       ` Christoph Paasch
2021-10-27  1:12                                         ` [Cerowrt-devel] " Eric Dumazet
2021-10-27  3:45                                           ` Bob McMahon
2021-10-27  5:40                                             ` [Cerowrt-devel] " Eric Dumazet
2021-10-28 16:04                                             ` Christoph Paasch
2021-10-29 21:16                                               ` Bob McMahon
2021-10-26  5:32                                 ` Bob McMahon
2021-10-26 10:04                                   ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] " Bjørn Ivar Teigen
2021-10-26 17:23                                     ` Bob McMahon
2021-10-27 14:29                                       ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " Sebastian Moeller
2021-08-02 22:59               ` [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board Bob McMahon
2021-08-02 23:16                 ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " David Lang
2021-08-02 23:50                   ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-08-03  3:06                     ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " David Lang
2021-08-02 23:55                   ` Ben Greear
2021-08-03  0:01                     ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-08-03  3:12                       ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " David Lang
2021-08-03  3:23                         ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-08-03  4:30                           ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " David Lang
2021-08-03  4:38                             ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-08-03  4:44                               ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " David Lang
2021-08-03 16:01                                 ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-08-08  4:35                             ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] " Dick Roy
2021-08-08  5:04                               ` [Starlink] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-08-08  5:04                           ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] " Dick Roy
2021-08-08  5:07                             ` [Starlink] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-08-10 14:10                           ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] " Rodney W. Grimes
2021-08-10 16:13                             ` Dick Roy
2021-08-10 17:06                               ` [Starlink] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-08-10 17:56                                 ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] " Dick Roy
2021-08-10 18:11                                 ` Dick Roy
2021-08-10 19:21                                   ` [Starlink] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-08-10 20:16                                     ` [Cerowrt-devel] Anhyone have a spare couple a hundred million ... Elon may need to start a go-fund-me page! Dick Roy
2021-08-10 20:33                                       ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] " Jeremy Austin
2021-08-10 20:44                                         ` David Lang
2021-08-10 22:54                                           ` Bob McMahon
2021-09-02 17:36                                   ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] Due Aug 2: Internet Quality workshop CFP for the internet architecture board David P. Reed
2021-09-03 14:35                                     ` [Bloat] [Cake] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cerowrt-devel] " Matt Mathis
2021-09-03 18:33                                       ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] [Cake] [Starlink] [Make-wifi-fast] " David P. Reed
2021-08-03  0:37                   ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] " Leonard Kleinrock
2021-08-03  1:24                     ` [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-08-08  5:07                       ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] " Dick Roy
2021-08-08  5:15                         ` [Starlink] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-08-08 18:36                           ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cake] " Aaron Wood
2021-08-08 18:48                             ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Bloat] " Jonathan Morton
2021-08-08 19:58                               ` [Bloat] [Make-wifi-fast] [Starlink] [Cake] [Cerowrt-devel] " Bob McMahon
2021-08-08  4:20                     ` [Cerowrt-devel] [Starlink] [Cake] [Make-wifi-fast] " Dick Roy

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