From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ob0-x22d.google.com (mail-ob0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8555F21F1FE for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:57:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ob0-f173.google.com with SMTP id wp4so1363767obc.18 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:57:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=TwPRRoj4wPZKYe/po9RkFDaQH2xIwx7vUqHkGKY9nS0=; b=AjNTxIKC8OUCsVVDB8JjejYhh6XoTA760pd1X6fGPXx0+21wq03TMX4gzR2RrAF23n GvfALXp6G12idEQcOoJaYI//k6CytkhVwjZc65tRUfhvooZPeXqFF2Jx20JuXEV7MBMZ BNyzY3G+642X/vsqPo0ss0aJS5lD7tpcbsENEKvhC6uB7upceQKBeZnwZCzKELM6uPxP ZcyvCtL3UiA86O1NXNnymctrw8PO+leCgbCvHZ+rlh90PpLPE77PzIVBV6eFERN/j9yD 9UTOj0PxV/Vq2mbg4S5wW+6NrYQSg7t77GKAfsU3t5LnZCSDAVQTiaSdyaNlyyW26SpO IiHg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.45.71 with SMTP id k7mr10108704oem.41.1413910625623; Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.227.211 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:57:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.202.227.211 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:57:05 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <58702.1413908858@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> References: <121767.1413574248@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <9382.1413826910@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> <544672D3.8020709@redhat.com> <58702.1413908858@turing-police.cc.vt.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 09:57:05 -0700 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: Valdis Kletnieks Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0149cd7295a5340505f1b897 Cc: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] SQM in mainline openwrt, fq_codel considered for fedora default X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2014 16:57:35 -0000 --089e0149cd7295a5340505f1b897 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 This is not the place to engage in the systemd debate. We use procd in openwrt because it fits in teeny routers, and it has its own problems. I would, in fact, like it if more devs, engaged in auditing, coding for, and improving *all* the init replacements. The flamage vs fixage ratio elsewhere is way out of hand, and it bugs me a lot. The kernel to userspace transition is one of the most finicky, difficult, and painfully visible areas in which to work, and I would prefer constructive coding and tips shared here (and elsewhere) between people trying to make things better at boot, and to work together to make meaningful change, rather than rehashing old problems and scars. I note: I would appreciate some interest from the systemd folk into the work of ietf homenet, and into things like hnetd and mdns proxy. (and the reverse from those working on those concepts) The excessively dynamic nature of the modern ipv6 rollout has led to a need to tightly integrate address assignment, routing and naming, which helped delay barrier breaker a year and it's not clear to me to what extent the modern linux server or desktop can deal with that and still provide useful services, nor concepts like source specific routing, and better integration with 802.11 and 802.14. --089e0149cd7295a5340505f1b897 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This is not the place to engage in the systemd debate.

We use procd in openwrt because it fits in teeny routers, an= d it has its own problems.

I would, in fact, like it if more devs, engaged in auditing,= coding for, and improving *all* the init replacements. The flamage vs fixa= ge ratio elsewhere is way out of hand, and it bugs me a lot.

The kernel to userspace transition is one of the most finick= y, difficult, and painfully visible areas in which to work, and I would pre= fer constructive coding and tips shared here (and elsewhere) between people= trying to make things better at boot, and to work together to make meaning= ful change, rather than rehashing old problems and scars.

I note:

I would appreciate some interest from the systemd folk into = the work of ietf=C2=A0 homenet, and into=C2=A0 things like hnetd and mdns p= roxy. (and the reverse from those working on those concepts) The excessivel= y dynamic nature of the modern ipv6 rollout has led to a need to tightly in= tegrate address assignment,=C2=A0 routing and naming, which helped delay ba= rrier breaker a year and it's not clear to me to what extent the modern= linux server or desktop can deal with that and still provide useful servic= es, nor concepts like source specific routing, and better integration with = 802.11 and 802.14.

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