From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wg0-f47.google.com (mail-wg0-f47.google.com [74.125.82.47]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority" (verified OK)) by huchra.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E823D21F15B for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:49:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wgbge7 with SMTP id ge7so721125wgb.28 for ; Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:49:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=WpQjqzrLlVXP8bHiLIpeSmkLEbA/17XVdaqATL+aceA=; b=FDStjsuYe/gx1KDXSAgOqm2Z6hb3EeBievP+UjOaptfnC3sG2rYOKAUHaZ4c/Hpax9 VYIsF/1oIgmp744K6bXXc9I8GNMcHvgOYA/rD8ix2V6bHbVynkwtmBuBZhgd6dFrS5kV H5pV9WKkmzX1V47yBEbIoQgMGUP3FiElCdRLrrGIkHKB8efagT0f2e16Il14hiP5dv58 B6hEEIoIFzTSUypAEqASzvg6ZikVTqDyh60hxgjkw/bK0EcEsq4v1Ep2JDfTGwaQCdCC q7RKgldQ1jg8F4ieewcPHyS1gyrTL2CTuWLo694jGtOxvgrfU2SWF+uSKJC6nHMWIhTz AHng== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.181.67 with SMTP id k45mr1925406wem.17.1348073364611; Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.160.199 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:49:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 09:49:24 -0700 Message-ID: From: Dave Taht To: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Cerowrt-devel] the agile thread, post-sugarland thoughts, etc X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.13 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2012 16:49:27 -0000 I am enjoying the thread on agile over here: http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=3D45= 64 Trying to formalize some stuff that I do instinctively into language more folk grok would be good. One of the better links to come from it was this one: http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abrash/valve-how-i-got-here-what-its-like-an= d-what-im-doing-2/ This is something like what we've done with the bufferbloat effort - find something worthwhile, start a project to do it. However steam has a revenue model that we thus far lack. It does help to be making something lots of people want, and I suppose the hard problem is making people aware we have something they want. Speaking of that, the 3.6-rc6 kernel I was working on which has most of the cerowrt stuff in it, but for x86 and ubuntu is here: http://snapon.lab.bufferbloat.net/~cero1/deb/ and (in trying to lick the memory problems) I've been doing some builds for the 32MB ram nanostation M5 and picostation 2HP, based on the current cerowrt patch sets. With a single SSID I haven't been able to crash the 2HP yet with a variety of traffic. It's easy to calculate however how to crash nearly any access point with extra SSIDs if (Total spare ram - (4 wireless queues, 1000 packets =3D 2Mbytes roughly for each =3D 8Mbytes) * SSIDS) < 0) boom() This would be improvable with a multi hw queue fq_codel as each hardware queue could share an overall fq_codel queue (factor of 4 decrease), however, it seems to make more sense to have the queueing in the mac layer below the SSID abstractions. What's currently in cerowrt is eric dumazet's suggestions to reduce packet allocations under load. The above math was worse before - no matter the packet size, it seemed as though 2k and 4k allocations would be exausted. ... After I recover from the sprint required to get "sugarland" out the door, I'd like to work on ways to do scrum and sprint-like things (google hangouts?) to spread the knowledge and work around, and to parallelize the effort more. So much work remains. Truly addressing the wireless problem hasn't even started. I have to admit that after doing something like 30 official releases of cerowrt out the last 18 months, I'd really like to hand over the reins to that to someone else. Worse is after the openwrt unfreeze, new kernels will start to appear, and while working with Linux 3.6 and later would be helpful, I'd rather have stability for a while to work on higher layers of the stack, and get analytical. Doing both "stable" maintainence and trying to move forward on new kernels is a problem... Next up for me is working on qos-scripts, analytical models and tests, and updating my test deployment to this generation of code if all goes well. I just dumped a ton of raw data into the deBloat repo, too. Also have a few patches for the linux and openwrt mainlines to polish... On other fronts, I'm still working the basic funding angles and trying to fix things with amazon. I was encouraged enough by your (thus far failed) attempts at financial help to sink the time I did into sugarland (sugar helped too, I think she needs a job title). If it wasn't for the outpouring of your support, I'd have given up. Thx. I sure hope sugarland is better than -10. There has been an upswing in corporate interest in the last few weeks, I may have some news on that shortly. I had planned originally to get to barcelona for the wireless summit and the linux conference. I may still make the second (issue is in doubt, though). Is anyone besides jg going to this? http://www.wirelesssummit.org/ It's near the home of guifi.net which is one of the larger wireless networks I've ever heard of. -- Dave T=E4ht http://www.bufferbloat.net/projects/cerowrt/wiki - "3.3.8-26 is out with fq_codel!"