From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-il1-x12d.google.com (mail-il1-x12d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0E7733B29D for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2021 00:17:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-il1-x12d.google.com with SMTP id f5so7158393ilr.9 for ; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 21:17:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=uQdBNv66mccZP0QlnPwx4RZnrobIsrR9kuUAQh/ux98=; b=tXoc4pUk7Ts/ED0CV5xuCVOpTEdpTPR2evwTq+BAUdH56ir5OcCzgPBbp1yqM1BVNY PAtYDfKrSazJpKLMAyYbZ/Oj6IYDaT478CXP92uhdYnR2YUJrOf6hOwIb7Ls04QnYWlq AKabzfmKh1Gn96bCafTBCT+53ts0HpMta7VZ0JGOc6r3DEbM7m0da/Dpyw0oLPehahsh bGlNj+wqE9FZz30KgWUw4uO9qnUo9LzSs392FfPMQ36zq8iQSbHyDzEtFTZAytZ/HNGe FmKuZBqFIzJj04c2pXtqg29ARjWNL4Wd14foPAg3EjvtwTp0942YSF5P/tL5OYdvV2q4 NXXQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uQdBNv66mccZP0QlnPwx4RZnrobIsrR9kuUAQh/ux98=; b=JKAPnErD1ekNC8KaRNfv+f0uzC8iilwsp9zaaL9XP7ICDZeU1+hGmfxnnYsMTwBn81 d0cFlG7wzJqtRYo42QEH/JWhBEdmNe3veGjrmE/X7mGbvhR8dVUNhTlFIVk6zAISizUg WUcHUI6pExGKSDBu7otY2/6PFyDZnV0Ttf1aHCxnzrTlM6c6Ue+BHgU0VoCOVlfy+F/B McXFsIarwEPrM0lH4sx+iptpb+J2WYz7zg2Q6alerEvX9vuZkYnot3myh14PTHXdcnn9 245gbBHgw9W9FGlByy6O2Rqcx1SfJwGmDOHOu1I5bEysQmrk4eBWOxEA290ao5Lb5iQx dYJA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533a+PuWIpEa4bORklOskSIQK9LccGjtF6bRUrozh3eqXu7S4EQ5 3zNetuzGJ/uihqGbxsIe53gDqcdvVnDDu6zTmDzMuKGE+HU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzPMf7v0dnILbPA/xOkA/2EiIBhVmtC3/NkoVEXEjpXQYV2yz0n9nKdctRcrc3t/fwwrbK26DKygURhcWJTGng= X-Received: by 2002:a92:db50:: with SMTP id w16mr1085339ilq.287.1617164258155; Tue, 30 Mar 2021 21:17:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20210331025052.GA10360@mail.taht.net> In-Reply-To: <20210331025052.GA10360@mail.taht.net> From: Dave Taht Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 21:17:27 -0700 Message-ID: To: cerowrt-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Cerowrt-devel] Fwd: geeks, internet X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2021 04:17:39 -0000 I note I really like the internet history mailing list. ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Dave T=C3=A4ht Date: Tue, Mar 30, 2021 at 7:50 PM Subject: geeks, internet To: ----- Forwarded message from the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via Internet-history ----- Date: Mon, 13 Jul 2020 06:52:58 -1000 From: the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via Internet-history To: Internet-history Subject: Re: [ih] Keep the geeks in charge of the internet ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Karl Auerbach Date: July 12, 2020 at 06:19:26 GMT+9 That piece demonstrates why "geeks" should *not* run the Internet. Bodies such as ICANN have demonstrated time and time again that they are incapable of resisting capture by organized business interests, such as the trademark industry, and the domain name registry industry (which, though ICANN's decades long self-blindness has created a multi $Billion per year money pump of monopoly-rent profit.) Over the years I've spent a fair amount of time among both "geeks" and "policymakers". There are definitely many very intelligent people in those camps. However there are relative few "geeks" who understand economics, law, or social forces. The same can be said of the policymakers - there are many who's depth of understanding of the Internet is no deeper than having an AOL email account. The voice of experts who know how a thing works, from top to bottom, is essential. But our world is like the fabled elephant in the tale of the blind men who each perceive the creature as only the small piece that they can touch and do not comprehend the total. Those who are experts in one field are often somewhat blind in other fields. This is why we need governance by entities that strive for a synoptic view, that operate on the basis of respect for all concerns and listen (and consider) all voices. The organs of decision of such entities ought to be filled with intelligent, open-minded generalists. Those generalists may not comprehend the entire elephant, but they will know that whatever it is, it is more than merely a tail or trunk or tree-like legs. (This is part of the foundation of my argument that STEM education needs to be balanced by a strong dose of liberal arts - we need to tune our educations machinery to create those smart generalists.) For many decades the Internet had an air gap from society. That gap no longer exists. The Internet is now a fundamental critical infrastructure. It is also being comprehended as a marvelous tool for control, data gathering, public-opinion shaping, profit making, and a force in national a= n international politics. Take the 5G push for example. At its edges it is starting to give off a scent of attempting to be the new ISO/OSI. There's some good stuff in 5G, as there was in ISO/OSI. But the decisions about deployment of 5G, it's frequency bands, its use in vehicle-to-X communications, etc go well beyond the merely technical. If we let "the geeks" run the farm we can expect a lot of new Facebooks and Zuckerbergs - lots of technology without comprehension of, nor care for, the social impact. Do we really want to resurrect a world run by trade guilds? Is one going to be required to go through an new kind of apprenticeship in order to have a say, a say that must be heard even if not accepted, in how we pull and turn the levers and knobs of our networks, health systems, power grids, food distribution systems, etc etc? Democracy, whether direct or representative, is our imperfect answer. That path is hard, slow, inefficient, and frustrating. But it is necessary. We have to take care to learn from the past. We ought to take a lesson from things like ICANN, where the voice of the public interest is muted under thick layers of complicated procedures, costs of effective participation, and competition from well-funded industrial interests. --karl-- On Sun, Jul 12, 2020 at 1:09 AM *the keyboard of geoff goodfellow > wrote:* > *By enabling people and businesses to remain connected while under > lockdown, the Internet has helped to prevent the global economy from > collapsing entirely. And yet the engineer-led nonprofit organizations tha= t > oversee the stable functioning of the global Internet are again under > attack.* > EXCERPT: > > The coronavirus pandemic has rapidly transformed the internet into the > most critical infrastructure on Earth. > > By enabling people and businesses to remain connected while under > lockdown, the internet has helped to prevent the global economy from > collapsing entirely. Indeed, with fear and social distancing continuing t= o > separate many of us, it has become the connective tissue for much human > interaction and economic activity around the world. > > But few appreciate how this critical global resource has remained stable > and resilient since its inception, even as its scope and scale have > undergone uninterrupted explosive growth. In an age of widening political= , > economic, and social divisions, how has the =E2=80=9Cone internet=E2=80= =9D connecting the > entire world been sustained? And how can we best continue to protect it? > > The answers to both questions start with understanding what makes the > Internet =E2=80=94 which consists of tens of thousands of disparate netwo= rks =E2=80=94 look > like and function as one network for all. These components, or unique > internet identifiers, include Internet Protocol (IP) addresses, which are > associated with every device connected to the internet, and internet doma= in > names (like ft.com, harvard.edu or apple.news), which we use to search > for and connect to computers easily. > > These unique identifiers ensure that, no matter where you are or which > network you are connected to, you will always get in touch with the right > computer with the desired domain name, or reach the right target device > with an embedded IP number (such as a smart thermostat, for example). Thi= s > simple, elegant architecture reflects the genius of a handful of brillian= t > engineers who created the internet a half-century ago. Since then, it has > never failed to help us locate the billions of devices that have been add= ed > to the thousands of networks that make up today=E2=80=99s cyber economy. = Should the > identifiers fail, we would experience immediate digital chaos. > > Given the identifiers=E2=80=99 critical role, it is imperative that they = not be > compromised or controlled by any authority that is not committed to > maintaining the internet as an open, global, common good. In the wrong > hands, they could be used to fragment the Internet and enable top-down > control of usage and users by governments with malign intentions. And suc= h > fears are real, given authoritarian governments=E2=80=99 online meddling = in > elections, national security networks and digital commercial transactions > in the last few years. > > So, the key question is who should be entrusted today to maintain the > security and reliability of internet identifiers. The answer is simple: > geeks, not governments... > > [...] > > https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/geeks-not-governments-should= -control-the-internet-by-fadi-chehade-2020-07 > > > https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/07/11/commentary/world-commenta= ry/keep-geeks-charge-internet/ > > -- Geoff.Goodfellow@iconia.com living as The Truth is True -- Internet-history mailing list Internet-history@elists.isoc.org https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history ----- End forwarded message ----- -- My email server only sends and accepts starttls encrypted mail in transit. One benefit - it stops all spams thus far, cold. If you are not encrypting by default you are not going to get my mail or I, yours. --=20 "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Mother Nature cannot be fooled" - Richard Feynman dave@taht.net CTO, TekLibre, LLC Tel: 1-831-435-0729