From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd35.google.com (mail-io1-xd35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DEA93B2A4 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 23:10:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd35.google.com with SMTP id e3so17922614ioc.12 for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 20:10:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sXRcYLRmHbddpSyaDklVX1Hb06SQusg00+kTMkMuOBI=; b=OQPNj5QGIrURMvWB+DK1cLLNDoiFIiqjpdOADFH2izpu6OvOLyrA7lTU493K2RRHgp xGP9pq1mlI/ysJrX3UhVpdYtgarPH7cyK5w84fxigOY2ynRdRoWDruL9OeMYiXuUBCLe KhdfDCHkoJb35rGg3Ty+jieBNjtvQL0o+RypcX6FwIngXwe4Jy2imvfNCdv78/5EcFyR JX52TdeiBTqi1zKcEY1WQ74NzwHKRnTtcyUUVNyk5XwdF7ZmqKgsak1/ldjmZMSL0ZL4 WPbmX2Ys2zQK1V+Uq6vswmVvMGOpyd8cMJfhFFqT4nZkWw2862JqQ9Xzv9srXA/QWLxM ZkEQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sXRcYLRmHbddpSyaDklVX1Hb06SQusg00+kTMkMuOBI=; b=IFZZhPznAhRT+tHj/a4RLWec79/7WIsZV9pfFOkxsdQOj0xsQDyBOtUbuXvL7Cvzbs TkLBU+rQ/VJHI366kXBgNcrVtpJir0T+QTfC3RPdbvaALgqYiB3J3ReERVGBnYIYbw3P MUXPUcxPOQHkFfA+v5F5z37DSSqJGQnwc2rcZ5yD+4gmkMPy3c31NQWXKJBdFsXJFVHU z7MrKHMfVHJClvq6g7b61yJXWk8jOt9tVYBMEjJ4l8Vdv3oS9BP9zurm7YQ9RwBzO34k R8jDUy/7AMHhdAGXYqgr5e+18qflO70bkLbEc5fUfX8C/JNSohitsZVWBzs3aSZGJmF/ DBNA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAX1hUjgJoLD4GAGmx8q2n6ghuwfX+UIhmaAa4PAOgJ1r9Z6Zm5T 6BAgCxI1+NvCEOkf1iAT09gSjW6p9hpb+oIYvWM= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqwMreqpoy9e+iBFW5A3F/Bmf/cywlgdUYTNKNIuZaO+6/KW47HNOHxFEYWI5OOsp/wwoUBDoCfbbUF47DIuiOk= X-Received: by 2002:a6b:790a:: with SMTP id i10mr49486581iop.150.1560741006706; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 20:10:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <30395.1560702367@turing-police> In-Reply-To: <30395.1560702367@turing-police> From: Dave Taht Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2019 20:09:55 -0700 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Valdis_Kl=C4=93tnieks?= Cc: cerowrt-devel Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Cerowrt-devel] Biggest bufferbloat offenders in 2019? X-BeenThere: cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: Development issues regarding the cerowrt test router project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 03:10:07 -0000 you might get more traction on this on the bloat, ripe, and nanog lists. On Sun, Jun 16, 2019 at 9:27 AM Valdis Kl=C4=93tnieks wrote: > > So I'm writing up something, and The Great Google is failing me. A few th= ings > I can't seem to track down: > > Have Microsoft and/or Apple gotten any sort of AQM into their products? fq_codel became the default on osx wifi devices over 2 years ago. I know that the codebase is shared with IOS, but to this day I've not got confirmation that it is on or not on IOS on wifi or 3g. I'm really happy to note that intel added support for fq_codel for wifi in linux 5.1 - and neither I or toke noticed until someone pointed it out. I'd love someone with the right iwl devices on their laptop to try it (I'm pure ath9/10k her= e) microsoft has not shown a pulse around here lately. > Have all the carrier routers (Cisco, Juniper, etc) gotten their act toget= her? If not, > who's still lagging? The only major cisco bufferbloat solution appeared for a single cisco device a couple years back. Weirdly I have 6 folk from arista now on my linkedin feed, and their product is as bloated as the come. On my bad days, I tend to think that the chief impact of the bufferbloat project was merely to hold carrier gear buffer sizes constant (sigh, not even reduce them) as bandwidths went up, not our fancy schmancy algorithms. I'm hoping high end customers are buying more shallow buffered carrier products or using VOQ effectively. on the lower end, like I said, bandwidths went up, buffer sizes didn't: http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest/results/bufferbloat?up=3D1 > Who are the top offenders in the currently-shipping CPE, CPE is a different term than "home router", and for all I know, CPE still universally sucks. what sort of CPE? GPON fiber ONTs are not bad at 60ms worth of buffering at 100mbit. early 5g tested out at 1.6 sec. Independently purchased home routers are looking pretty good though. > and who's gotten > decent anti-bufferbloating into currently shipping gear? I would prefer we don't the term "anti-bufferbloat" as that is used by the netduma folk, which while it does use fq_codel for part of it, seem to have got framing wrong and does other packet inspecting stuff I'm not into. I do hope they keep improving their code, but I always worry about anything that needs external databases to work. Streamboost, for example, also used fq_codel in some versions, but their database stuff I've heard has been basically discontinued..... so I use "bufferbloat-fighting" or something like that instead. The wifi stuff is spreading like wildfire, the sqm stuff more slowly. all QCA derived products for the wifi side (e.g eero/google wifi/openwrt), openwrt and related for default fq_codel support on everything, all of linux tends to default to fq_codel now, with redhat 8 being the last join the party. someone should maybe poke into what yocto uses as a default. Somehow doing a comprehensive survey would be good. > _______________________________________________ > Cerowrt-devel mailing list > Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel --=20 Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC http://www.teklibre.com Tel: 1-831-205-9740