[Cerowrt-devel] turris omnia cracks 300k in funding

[Cerowrt-devel] turris omnia cracks 300k in funding

[Dave Taht]

I am pretty excited to see this happen.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/turris-omnia-hi-performance-open-source-router#/updates

Maybe it will arduino-ize (or raspberry pi) the home router/cpe
market, and multiple manufacturers, vendors, and ISPS, jump on the
open gerbers(?), and architecture to turn it into a home routing
platform we as a community can be proud of.

In particular, I have some hope for an open gpon SFP, and I do keep
hoping we'll end up with a good wifi device of some sort for it - I'm
still trying to get into some decent new 802.11ac chipsets here, I
hope they have picked one out and established a good relationship with
the manufacturer.

I do sometimes, get bothered by the sort of "exciting" things people
add as "stretch" goals.

I'd love someone to promise - in exchange for funding -

A) years of free or inexpensive updates - or a plan for such
B) or an improved kernel - or a continuously improved one
C) or an extensive QA and build farm during the product build process
D) years of uptime and reliability after ship
E) email suport

Something that to me, says "this will be a quality product". Why do
people not think about long term costs of maintaining something that
you will own for 5-15 years or more? I'd gladly pay $12/yr to *know*
my home router was being maintained properly. But maybe that's just
me....

I'd like to see something that doesn't treat the really difficult
parts of OS and driver development and maintenance as invisible costs.
I'd love to know this puppy was going to be well maintained, and not
abandoned. I worry that the OS is an openwrt "fork", not a branch, and
wonder what kernels will be on it, and wonder if it will be ietf
homenet compliant, etc.

It bugs me there seems to be no mailing list or git tree or buildbot
system to access. ?

And lastly, the fact that everybody on indigogo wants, in a variety of
colors, the "finished" product (nobody spent 1k on any of the first 10
prototypes), rather than getting in on making it "finished", *really*
bugs me. People need to get in there (as we're doing with the 1200ac)
and make it *good*, not just lounge around waiting for someone else to
do it.

Anyway, I just tried to order the 1k prototype box. Needed paypal.
Don't have a working paypal account. Will go fix that.

... I *really* don't want to have to do another cerowrt, I'd much
rather finish cake, make wifi faster on some chipset if some
manufacturer will let us, and contribute to a product we can as open
code loving, freedom loving, reliability loving, low latency loving
folk, actually love.

Dave Täht
Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!
https://www.gofundme.com/savewifi

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] turris omnia cracks 300k in funding

[John Yates]

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On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 7:02 AM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I am pretty excited to see this happen.
>
>
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/turris-omnia-hi-performance-open-source-router#/updates

From the FAQ:

    Is there any firmware binary blobs?

    Just for the 5 GHz wifi card. The rest of the board is completely blob
free.

What obstacles will that present?  Or is this as good as we can hope for?

Does detrimental buffering happen outside of such a blob?

/john

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] turris omnia cracks 300k in funding

[Toke Høiland-Jørgensen]

John Yates <john@yates-sheets.org> writes:

> Is there any firmware binary blobs?
>
> Just for the 5 GHz wifi card. The rest of the board is completely blob free.
>
> What obstacles will that present? Or is this as good as we can hope
> for?

A lot; basically, we can't touch the low-level WiFi stuff. However, the
WiFi card is replaceable (as far as I've understood), so once we manage
to get open firmware for any card, we can use that. So it's "just" a
matter of convincing someone to open up their firmware...

> Does detrimental buffering happen outside of such a blob?

Outside, inside, all over the place :(

-Toke

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] turris omnia cracks 300k in funding

[John Yates]

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On Mon, Nov 30, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Toke Høiland-Jørgensen <toke@toke.dk>
wrote:
>
> A lot; basically, we can't touch the low-level WiFi stuff. However, the
> WiFi card is replaceable (as far as I've understood), so once we manage
> to get open firmware for any card, we can use that. So it's "just" a
> matter of convincing someone to open up their firmware...

Ha!  I have purchased mini WiFi cards in the past and stuck them in
laptops but those have always been the card sanctioned by the laptop's
manufacturer.  I guess it had not occurred to me that WiFi cards must
conform to some standardized interface and hence be at least moderately
interchangeable.

Here is hoping that such an open firmware day arrives soon!

/john

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Re: [Cerowrt-devel] turris omnia cracks 300k in funding

[Mikael Abrahamsson]

On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, John Yates wrote:

> Ha!  I have purchased mini WiFi cards in the past and stuck them in 
> laptops but those have always been the card sanctioned by the laptop's 
> manufacturer.  I guess it had not occurred to me that WiFi cards must 
> conform to some standardized interface and hence be at least moderately 
> interchangeable.

Most of the cards is actually mini pci-express, so it's definitely a 
standard. On for instance Lenovo laptops, then what PCI-E cards can be put 
into them is checked by the BIOS, and there are people that modify their 
BIOS to remove this bootup check to be able to put non-sanctioned cards 
into the laptop.

Vendors tend to blame for instance FCC for the "sanctioned card"-lock, 
but...

-- 
Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] turris omnia cracks 300k in funding

[Dave Taht]

On Tue, Dec 1, 2015 at 1:20 PM, Mikael Abrahamsson <swmike@swm.pp.se> wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2015, John Yates wrote:
>
>> Ha!  I have purchased mini WiFi cards in the past and stuck them in
>> laptops but those have always been the card sanctioned by the laptop's
>> manufacturer.  I guess it had not occurred to me that WiFi cards must
>> conform to some standardized interface and hence be at least moderately
>> interchangeable.
>
>
> Most of the cards is actually mini pci-express, so it's definitely a
> standard. On for instance Lenovo laptops, then what PCI-E cards can be put
> into them is checked by the BIOS, and there are people that modify their
> BIOS to remove this bootup check to be able to put non-sanctioned cards into
> the laptop.
>
> Vendors tend to blame for instance FCC for the "sanctioned card"-lock,
> but...

Yes, that is an annoying "feature"

However, I note that the heavier duty 802.11ac pcie cards are
generally drawing a bit more power than what the pcie spec allows for,
so either you need to have an auxiliary connector for power, or have a
beefier bus.



>
> --
> Mikael Abrahamsson    email: swmike@swm.pp.se
> _______________________________________________
> Cerowrt-devel mailing list
> Cerowrt-devel@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/cerowrt-devel

Re: [Cerowrt-devel] turris omnia cracks 300k in funding

[Dave Taht]

I see that they have added a public questions forum. I put my two most
pressing questions there.

https://discourse.labs.nic.cz/c/turris-omnia

Dave Täht
Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!
https://www.gofundme.com/savewifi


On Sun, Nov 29, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am pretty excited to see this happen.
>
> https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/turris-omnia-hi-performance-open-source-router#/updates
>
> Maybe it will arduino-ize (or raspberry pi) the home router/cpe
> market, and multiple manufacturers, vendors, and ISPS, jump on the
> open gerbers(?), and architecture to turn it into a home routing
> platform we as a community can be proud of.
>
> In particular, I have some hope for an open gpon SFP, and I do keep
> hoping we'll end up with a good wifi device of some sort for it - I'm
> still trying to get into some decent new 802.11ac chipsets here, I
> hope they have picked one out and established a good relationship with
> the manufacturer.
>
> I do sometimes, get bothered by the sort of "exciting" things people
> add as "stretch" goals.
>
> I'd love someone to promise - in exchange for funding -
>
> A) years of free or inexpensive updates - or a plan for such
> B) or an improved kernel - or a continuously improved one
> C) or an extensive QA and build farm during the product build process
> D) years of uptime and reliability after ship
> E) email suport
>
> Something that to me, says "this will be a quality product". Why do
> people not think about long term costs of maintaining something that
> you will own for 5-15 years or more? I'd gladly pay $12/yr to *know*
> my home router was being maintained properly. But maybe that's just
> me....
>
> I'd like to see something that doesn't treat the really difficult
> parts of OS and driver development and maintenance as invisible costs.
> I'd love to know this puppy was going to be well maintained, and not
> abandoned. I worry that the OS is an openwrt "fork", not a branch, and
> wonder what kernels will be on it, and wonder if it will be ietf
> homenet compliant, etc.
>
> It bugs me there seems to be no mailing list or git tree or buildbot
> system to access. ?
>
> And lastly, the fact that everybody on indigogo wants, in a variety of
> colors, the "finished" product (nobody spent 1k on any of the first 10
> prototypes), rather than getting in on making it "finished", *really*
> bugs me. People need to get in there (as we're doing with the 1200ac)
> and make it *good*, not just lounge around waiting for someone else to
> do it.
>
> Anyway, I just tried to order the 1k prototype box. Needed paypal.
> Don't have a working paypal account. Will go fix that.
>
> ... I *really* don't want to have to do another cerowrt, I'd much
> rather finish cake, make wifi faster on some chipset if some
> manufacturer will let us, and contribute to a product we can as open
> code loving, freedom loving, reliability loving, low latency loving
> folk, actually love.
>
> Dave Täht
> Let's go make home routers and wifi faster! With better software!
> https://www.gofundme.com/savewifi